AFL targets Essendon Royalty

[Sedat]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Some more light reading from Baker & McKenzie:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-injected-with-mystery-mexican-substance-20130814-2rx6m.html

I love how Baker & McKenzie are drip-feeding damning little tidbits every couple of weeks that drag Essendon further and further into the mire. And yet we hear more about the opinions of Spike McVeigh and other morons

And Caro's latest take:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/admission-may-have-saved-hirds-mates-20130814-2rwxr.html

Hard to argue with this:
"It is so difficult to fathom such ludicrously bad governance where employees are concerned. Imagine if your child was given a vaccination at work only to find that they were injected with a drug purchased in Mexico and left behind by a patient? And then your child's workplace was unable to identify the drug.

And then no one still running that workplace was prepared to yet take public responsibility."

[Sedat]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

A drug normally used for muscular-dystrophy patients, sourced from Mexico - I wonder if they were experimenting with myostatin manipulation?

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/08 ... rts-doping

And I wonder if the stuff they were using was this?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mhp/myo-x.html

This stuff is pretty expensive, but if you're on a budget you can get it a little cheaper from this place....in Mexico:

http://www.supplementsplanet.com.mx/mhp ... ferta.html

I'm sure Baker and McKenzie will drip-feed a little more damning information in the coming weeks. But of course Little and Hird remain confident that their players did not take any PED's and this was all just a little bit of dodgy book-keeping

[Twodogs]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

If its illegal to possess them under the drugs, poisons and controlled substances act, and there is evidence that will stand up before the court beyond a reasonable doubt, then its quite possible.

Speaking of reasonable doubt. What is the standard of proof required in the AFL investigation? Is it balance of probabilities or beyond reasonable doubt?

[LongWait]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Thanks for your input into this discussion Sedat - the links to other sites have been great and I've really enjoyed your personal analysis of events. Kudos.

[westdog54]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Speaking of reasonable doubt. What is the standard of proof required in the AFL investigation? Is it balance of probabilities or beyond reasonable doubt?

That I cannot answer, but any appels through the Court system, irrespective of the level, are a civil proceeding and would thus be on Balance of Probabilities.

[Mofra]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

First of all, to say that there is 'no evidence of illegal substances being used is not right. What is actually happening is that there is not enough evidence to pin the administering of an illegal substance to any one given player. As such you cannot issue an infraction.

Secondly, Jobe Watson has never, not once, admitted to taking AOD-9604 and I defy anyone to find a direct quote from Watson that says otherwise.

Thirdly, Essendon have brought the game into disrepute with their lax handling of a program involving highly experimental substances, and the astounding risks they placed their players under, for, what it turned out, was seemingly minimal benefit. The club must be held accountable for their own lack of control and the treatment of their players.

Point 1 - yet

Poit 2 - agree

Point 3 - there are basic medical safeguards (ie Declaration of Helsinki 1964) that appear to have been completely ignored by the Bombers. It's not just the AFL & ASADA who have a case against the bombers once all the facts are known.
For example Worksafe are not pursuing them "at this time", and anyone involved with the regime may be in breach of medical practise standards.

It's nasty business - and the constant denials from Essendon fans are barely believable.

[westdog54]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Point 1 - yet

Poit 2 - agree

Point 3 - there are basic medical safeguards (ie Declaration of Helsinki 1964) that appear to have been completely ignored by the Bombers. It's not just the AFL & ASADA who have a case against the bombers once all the facts are known.
For example Worksafe are not pursuing them "at this time", and anyone involved with the regime may be in breach of medical practise standards.

It's nasty business - and the constant denials from Essendon fans are barely believable.

The investigation is 'ongoing' after all. I've no doubt that a whistleblower will emerge with the smoking gun at some point.

It just seems to get uglier and uglier as it goes along.

It makes me wonder just how much fairfax have known and for how long. I get the feeling that they have known about most of the stuff for quite some time and have let it get out bit by bit, all the while building the pressure on Essendon.

As someone who works in an organisation who's boss is borderline fanatical about workplace safety it beggars belief that there is as much watering down about this side of the argument as there has been.

[Remi Moses]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Very good article . They've been their usual obnoxious arrogant selves through this.

[Bornadog]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Don't agree with Kennett on many things but I think he is on the right track here:

Boot out Bombers for 2014 if crisis is unresolved: Kennett

If Essendon are going to take legal action then the AFL must act.

[Mofra]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

It makes me wonder just how much fairfax have known and for how long. I get the feeling that they have known about most of the stuff for quite some time and have let it get out bit by bit, all the while building the pressure on Essendon.

Fairfax don't post everything they know - litigious nature of society these days. Their lawyers work as hard as their journos I'm told

[LostDoggy]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

I wonder if Essendon's bark is worse than their bite — Are they merely claiming to be ready to fight the charges, hoping that the AFL will come to them pleading to settle and save the finals series?

[Remi Moses]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Robbo doesn't want the AFL commission to sit on the hearing.
Robbo's choice would be
Madden, Watson, Vanderhaar, Sheedy and Terry Daniher to sit in on the hearing.

[Twodogs]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

I wonder if Essendon's bark is worse than their bite — Are they merely claiming to be ready to fight the charges, hoping that the AFL will come to them pleading to settle and save the finals series?

I agree with Robbo. The AFL are to conflicted to judge . Put them in front of a proper judiciary I say.

[westdog54]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

I agree with Robbo. The AFL are to conflicted to judge . Put them in front of a proper judiciary I say.

So who chooses the judiciary?

We could go around in circles forever on this.

The reality is the AFL Commission was brought in for matters like this. By all means ask Demetriou to step aside from the proceedings, but I fail to see how the rest of the Commission is conflicted.

[Hotdog60]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

I agree with Robbo. The AFL are to conflicted to judge . Put them in front of a proper judiciary I say.

About the only way to do that would be to go to another country.