Tim English and the ruck dilemma

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  • mighty_west
    Coaching Staff
    • Feb 2008
    • 3507

    #16
    Originally posted by lemmon

    I know this isn't the point of your post, but I'm pretty interested in Croft spending some time rucking so we can find out what he looks like there.

    He's aggressive, he's a terrific athlete, he's happy to get amongst it at ground level - they're good ingredients for a young ruck.
    I also think Croft could be developed as a ruck option going forward, seems the type that can actually play multiple positions heck even a wing given his running capacity, rotating with English keeping Darcy forward, has the aggression too which we all crave for our rucks.

    Comment

    • ArsenalFC
      Rookie List
      • Dec 2024
      • 91

      #17
      It’s simple, English doesn’t have competition to improve, if fit he’s selected. Crossley would’ve given him something to consider. I think since all the concussion issues, he’s digressed.
      it’s an early sample but I hope he comes out and shows us what he’s capable of.

      Comment

      • Mofra
        Hall of Fame
        • Dec 2006
        • 15115

        #18
        Originally posted by Bornadog

        Spot on Boots. I have been saying this forever: Hitouts mean stuff all if you don't give your team the advantage. Xeri is a good tap ruck and also good at HTA. His 51 HO didn't win the game.

        English just needs to get back to improving his around the ground work. As far as being bullied, I thought English held his own in those stakes last night, he was more aggressive than I have ever seen him. A couple of times Xeri was just too strong.
        Xerri was no 2 in the comp for tackles last year wasn't he?

        He's not just a tap ruckman. He's prime Ben Hudson on speed skates.
        Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

        Comment

        • Grantysghost
          Bouncing Strong
          • Apr 2010
          • 19367

          #19
          I thought English was pretty competitive in the ruck last night.
          This thread after one round is pretty funny have to say. Lvdm and McNeil played well so we need someone to flog.
          I'm not an English sympathiser, he needs to constantly work hard to ensure he is competitive in the taps; I thought last night against a monster he did that.

          Agree with around the ground stuff, wasn't his usual output, hopefully that improves with some more games.

          Darcy and English splitting time might be a nice wildcard to have.
          BT COME BACK!​

          Comment


          • hujsh
            hujsh commented
            Editing a comment
            I thought I was alone. He was worse in the marking duels IMO
        • mjp
          Bulldog Team of the Century
          • Jan 2007
          • 7474

          #20
          Originally posted by doggies ftw
          You can’t possibly tell me we’d be worse having Crossley play 50% game time than the extra runner in Dolan playing 60% game time and 5 touches & 7 pressure acts (and nothing against Dolan in his first game, he’s a real talent) the fact that 50% game time of Crossley would be such an improvement on our game is the real issue in how diabolically poorly we’ve mismanaged the ruck.
          I'm not sure arguing for/against Crossley is a hill I want to die on but if I recall the numbers Dolan had 500% more possessions yesterday than Crossley had vs Essendon (he had 1x kick I believe).

          If you want to make an argument for a higher level backup ruckman who has the capacity to play alongside Tim - I get it. If your argument is we should have chosen a guys who SAID he had been eagerly awaiting a second chance but then showed up looking completely out of shape well...I basically don't get it. Right now, without Jamarra - we probably have the capacity in the 22 to have an extra tall...maybe our decision should be to play Gardner to support Tim and do a bit of pinch hitting down back?

          I don't see much point in going back to debate whether or not we should have offered a list spot to Crossley a month or so back...that ship has sailed. Onward and upward.
          What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

          Comment

          • doggies ftw
            Senior Player
            • Dec 2013
            • 1003

            #21
            Originally posted by Grantysghost
            I thought English was pretty competitive in the ruck last night.
            This thread after one round is pretty funny have to say. Lvdm and McNeil played well so we need someone to flog.
            I'm not an English sympathiser, he needs to constantly work hard to ensure he is competitive in the taps; I thought last night against a monster he did that.

            Agree with around the ground stuff, wasn't his usual output, hopefully that improves with some more games.

            Darcy and English splitting time might be a nice wildcard to have.
            He was absolutely humiliated last night, not sure how you can say he wasn’t that bad. To the point that he was basically dragged at points for Darcy leaving us very undermanned down forward. He was pathetic, not for the first time unfortunately - needs to find his 2023 form asap but as above, why would he bother? There’s zero reason for him to try with no other option

            Comment


            • Grantysghost
              Grantysghost commented
              Editing a comment
              I can say that because I think that. Appreciate your contributions, but I am not going to agree with them all
          • Scott2016
            Rookie List
            • Dec 2024
            • 167

            #22
            Originally posted by ArsenalFC
            It’s simple, English doesn’t have competition to improve, if fit he’s selected. Crossley would’ve given him something to consider. I think since all the concussion issues, he’s digressed.
            it’s an early sample but I hope he comes out and shows us what he’s capable of.
            I agree, Tim was a polite and timid ruckman, but once he had the concussion issues he has gone even more conservative. We need him to be aggressive at the contest as the opposition know they can work out their plans based on him not being dominate. We need to change the way other teams plan against us especially when we have the likes of Bont and Trelaor in the midfield (when available) We should be able to set up knowing we are going to win the contest and run forward giving our forwards a good look at it while its 6 on 6.

            Comment

            • JanLorMill
              WOOF Member
              • Feb 2023
              • 1743

              #23
              Originally posted by Mofra
              I'd rather we keep Darcy forward and grab a no 2 from somewhere for depth and to push for selection.

              Given Meek is now the clear number 1 at the Hawks, Ned Reeves? 210cm and just coming into his peak.
              We ain’t playing 2 rucks with Darcy and Lobb in the side as well. No one of note is coming to be the 2nd ruck.

              Comment

              • JanLorMill
                WOOF Member
                • Feb 2023
                • 1743

                #24
                Originally posted by azabob
                One last point, is English that highly paid as a ruck? I’d say his mid table compared to other rucks.
                If English isn’t highly paid then what is Meek or Sweet or Cameron on?

                Comment

                • Go_Dogs
                  Hall of Fame
                  • Jan 2007
                  • 10251

                  #25
                  I’m not too fussed looking at solo games in isolation or continuing the conversation about how much better we’d be with a bash and crash tap ruckman.

                  Id love for Tim to work on his strengths. He should be running his opponent ragged both ways and clocking 20 touches with 2 or more contested grabs and 5 or more uncontested grabs a game. Also kicking goal.

                  He’s always going to have limitations. That’s ok. Let’s maximise the stuff he beats just about every other ruck in and take that advantage. At moment for whatever reason we aren’t getting that outcome.
                  Have you heard Butters wants to come to the Dogs?

                  Comment

                  • azabob
                    Hall of Fame
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15481

                    #26
                    Originally posted by JanLorMill
                    If English isn’t highly paid then what is Meek or Sweet or Cameron on?
                    He’d be on more than them. Next contract for Meek and Cameron he will be on similar money. But he is on less than Sean Darcy, Gawn, Jackson, Grundy, TDK.
                    More of an In Bruges guy?

                    Comment

                    • jazzadogs
                      Bulldog Team of the Century
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 5839

                      #27
                      I'm with the apparent minority who thought that English battled hard against a better ruck. I thought he initiated contact more than usual and attempted to take front spot more than usual. Xerri is top 2 genuine contest ruck in the comp.
                      English was disappointing with his around the ground work.

                      Checked the numbers -

                      Xerri - 93 ruck contests (29 CBA), 51 hitouts. 5 clearances, 17 disposals, 4 marks (2 contested), 7 tackles.

                      English - 78 contests (25 CBA), 25 hitouts, 3 clearances, 11 disposals, 4 marks.

                      Darcy - 23 contests (8 CBA), 6 hitouts, 2 clearances

                      Freijah - 8 ruck contests, 0 hitouts

                      Darling - 15 contests (2 CBA), 1 hitout, 1 clearance

                      Comment


                      • jeemak
                        jeemak commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Xerri - 54.8% hit outs won
                        English - 32.1% hit outs won
                        Darcy - 26.1% hit outs won
                        Freijah - 0% hit outs won
                        Darling - 7% hit outs won

                        I don't know why we'd drag Tim so we could lessen our chances of winning hit outs by even more. Rather, I think he was just being taken off the ball because we have a better option to compete against a very strong opponent (to give Tim a rest and to get Darcy into the game - it's not as if he was ripping it apart up forward), while North really didn't have anyone else to lessen the ruck load.

                        If someone could show me that Darcy was more effective than Tim was vs. Xerri then that would add a layer to the above.
                    • jazzadogs
                      Bulldog Team of the Century
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 5839

                      #28
                      Originally posted by Mofra
                      I'd rather we keep Darcy forward and grab a no 2 from somewhere for depth and to push for selection.

                      Given Meek is now the clear number 1 at the Hawks, Ned Reeves? 210cm and just coming into his peak.
                      I think Reeves peak is VFL. If you're upset with English you'll be distraught with Reeves.

                      Comment

                      • JanLorMill
                        WOOF Member
                        • Feb 2023
                        • 1743

                        #29
                        Originally posted by azabob

                        He’d be on more than them. Next contract for Meek and Cameron he will be on similar money. But he is on less than Sean Darcy, Gawn, Jackson, Grundy, TDK.
                        Add Briggs. Those on more $ are way better than English.

                        Comment

                        • jazzadogs
                          Bulldog Team of the Century
                          • Oct 2008
                          • 5839

                          #30
                          Originally posted by JanLorMill
                          Add Briggs. Those on more $ are way better than English.
                          Yeh by all reports the contract that he ended up with reflects his value. The 1.1million that was being speculated at times would be concerning.

                          There are only 18 #1 rucks in the comp. They all get paid decently.

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