Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

So a leader must have a high skill level? I don't think the two are linked.
I think there is an argument to be had that says a leader must provide some inspiration (on and off the field) but I'm not sure skill levels would be a huge consideration.

Do we have any highly skilled players that could also provide strong leadership?

No. Not at all. but a leadership group should have a variety of player types. And at least one game breaker, to be respected. I think Luke Dahlhaus, for a club that has had a miserable year, for us to hang laurels around such a young player, and trumpet on about his ability, milk him for all the press we can get about him, then why shouldn't he be a part of the leadership group in a year or two? Why is nobody gushing over his efforts like they are Wallis? or is the romance with Wallis' blood line too strong?
Name another young player who has returned a better investment for us in the past 10 years as Luke Dahlhaus? has given us his all this season.

[GVGjr]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

No. Not at all. but a leadership group should have a variety of player types. And at least one game breaker, to be respected. I think Luke Dahlhaus, for a club that has had a miserable year, for us to hang laurels around such a young player, and trumpet on about his ability, milk him for all the press we can get about him, then why shouldn't he be a part of the leadership group in a year or two? Why is nobody gushing over his efforts like they are Wallis? or is the romance with Wallis' blood line too strong?
Name another young player who has returned a better investment for us in the past 10 years as Luke Dahlhaus? has given us his all this season.

So you really mean young and exciting not skilled?
I don't think our younger group are there yet in terms of being leaders at the club in fact I think the club might need to focus on helping them in becoming good young men rather than trying to develop them as leaders right at this moment. As good as Dahlhaus is as a footballer I don't think he is ready to be a leader and I'd say the same about Wallis.

Another 12 months should tell the story if any of our younger guys have what it takes to become leaders at the club. Two seasons at the club isn't sufficient to make that call in my opinion.

[azabob]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

No. Not at all. but a leadership group should have a variety of player types. And at least one game breaker, to be respected. I think Luke Dahlhaus, for a club that has had a miserable year, for us to hang laurels around such a young player, and trumpet on about his ability, milk him for all the press we can get about him, then why shouldn't he be a part of the leadership group in a year or two? Why is nobody gushing over his efforts like they are Wallis? or is the romance with Wallis' blood line too strong?
Name another young player who has returned a better investment for us in the past 10 years as Luke Dahlhaus? has given us his all this season.

GD, you make some good points. Not sure you putting a throw away line about Wallis and his bloodlines is necessary. I think you should edit your comment.

[Bornadog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Another 12 months should tell the story if any of our younger guys have what it takes to become leaders at the club. Two seasons at the club isn't sufficient to make that call in my opinion.

Agree with all you say GVGjr, and I say it will take even a longer period. These guys are only 19/20 years old and won't start maturing for awhile yet.

In my opinion, the only other guy that is young and could be captain, right now is Higgins. The rest of the players are now getting too old, ie Gia, Murphy. As per the other thread on the captain, end of 2013 we should be deciding then.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

GD, you make some good points. Not sure you putting a throw away line about Wallis and his bloodlines is necessary. I think you should edit your comment.

I'll explain further. It's no slight on Wallis. More to the point on here some have already pencilled him in as captain. His father is a champion and that adds some emotion to the equation. But Dahlhaus and the others are just as equally, Bulldogs through and through. Enormous respect for Wallis. As I do for Luke and Clay Smith, who have really given themselves 100% this season. I mean no disrespect to Mitch.

Other clubs like GWS and Melbourne have gone the step of putting very young blokes into the leadership group.
Selwood is captain, for example, of Geelong at the age of 24. Would our club ever have the gravitas to ever do something like this?

Is it possible to face change, something new, like putting a younger player into the leadership group, not because they are young, but as they are ready for it? Or will we auto cancel any young player, regardless of leadership ability?

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

So you really mean young and exciting not skilled?
I don't think our younger group are there yet in terms of being leaders at the club in fact I think the club might need to focus on helping them in becoming good young men rather than trying to develop them as leaders right at this moment. As good as Dahlhaus is as a footballer I don't think he is ready to be a leader and I'd say the same about Wallis.

Another 12 months should tell the story if any of our younger guys have what it takes to become leaders at the club. Two seasons at the club isn't sufficient to make that call in my opinion.

No. I mean, like Selwood at Geelong.. If the situation came up, ( not now, but in the future ) do we have the gravitas to promote a player based on attitude and disregard youth?
In regard to Luke GVG, in fairness to myself, did I not say in a year or two?

[Hotdog60]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

I'll explain further. It's no slight on Wallis. More to the point on here some have already pencilled him in as captain. His father is a champion and that adds some emotion to the equation. But Dahlhaus and the others are just as equally, Bulldogs through and through. Enormous respect for Wallis. As I do for Luke and Clay Smith, who have really given themselves 100% this season. I mean no disrespect to Mitch.

Other clubs like GWS and Melbourne have gone the step of putting very young blokes into the leadership group.
Selwood is captain, for example, of Geelong at the age of 24. Would our club ever have the gravitas to ever do something like this?

Is it possible to face change, something new, like putting a younger player into the leadership group, not because they are young, but as they are ready for it? Or will we auto cancel any young player, regardless of leadership ability?

That might be more out of necessity than design. One team has a few senior players and the other got rid of theirs.

[GVGjr]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

In regard to Luke GVG, in fairness to myself, did I not say in a year or two?

It was more around the initial comment of skills being a requirement that threw me.
All of our youngsters need to a) establish themselves as senior footballers and b) demonstrate good behaviors on and off the field before coming in consideration.

The reason why so many see Wallis as a potential leader is because he's been a captain and a leader throughout his junior football and he is impressive with the microphone in his hand.
Good qualities for a leader but we know there is more to it than that.

Time will tell if Dahlhaus and other youngsters at the club have what it takes.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

It was more around the initial comment of skills being a requirement that threw me.
All of our youngsters need to a) establish themselves as senior footballers and b) demonstrate good behaviors on and off the field before coming in consideration.

The reason why so many see Wallis as a potential leader is because he's been a captain and a leader throughout his junior football and he is impressive with the microphone in his hand.
Good qualities for a leader but we know there is more to it than that.

Time will tell if Dahlhaus and other youngsters at the club have what it takes.

Yes I see. Granted. Nick Maxwell, Tom Harley, here we are talking about captains.
But Collingwood, in their leadership group, do have some pretty inspirational players. Geelong also. Where are ours? Murphy, Gia, Cooney; Their time has almost past.
In terms of Wallis, Clay Smith and others are equally impressive, and my point is, he could be getting carry over points because of his Dad. Time will tell, is all I am saying.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

That might be more out of necessity than design. One team has a few senior players and the other got rid of theirs.

Right. But young players relate to young leaders. No doubt about it.

[Dog54]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Does anyone think if we can get farren ray for nothing we bring him back to the club. We are missing players desperately in this age group and I think he has been harshly treated by the saints this year.

[Mofra]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

I'm guessing that I'd be in the minority that say for the right price, absolutely yes

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

So you really mean young and exciting not skilled?
I don't think our younger group are there yet in terms of being leaders at the club in fact I think the club might need to focus on helping them in becoming good young men rather than trying to develop them as leaders right at this moment. As good as Dahlhaus is as a footballer I don't think he is ready to be a leader and I'd say the same about Wallis.

Another 12 months should tell the story if any of our younger guys have what it takes to become leaders at the club. Two seasons at the club isn't sufficient to make that call in my opinion.

Here here GVGjr. I cannot believe the strong push to replace Boyd who under duress has been quite exceptional this year to be by far our most consistent performer. Boyd is tough and rarely misses a game. It is not hard to understand why BMcC has such a strong opinion of Boyd.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Just looking at some of the fringe guys,

Djkerra - he really is bi-polar. His good is pretty good, but his bad is awful. For me he would be someone I would delist. You want a player who brings a consistent level to the game each week and his fumbling at key times is costly.

Howard - I can't work this guy out, but the more I see him he is not a backman. Looked ok across half forward today in probably his best game. His big problem is lack of awareness and the fact he panics. Worth another season, but you I would be expecting significant improvement as a winger half-forward.

Grant - in 40mins of footy he kicked 3 from limited disposals. He is a forward and a natural forward who knows where the goals are. Better than any of his contemporaries is his ability to find space and run to the right places. Big preseason for Grant, but definitely a keeper.

Jong - gem. This guy just knows where to be, where to run and is not afraid to put his body on the line. Rookie list elevation for me.

Marcovic - worth another season, but borderline. Much will depend on how Morris pulls up and how Austin comes along.

Skipper - I want to find positives to say this guy should stay on the list. He was anonymous for the fist half today. Came into it in the second, but I query whether its enough. The one thing he has in his favour is that he is classic tall/short. I think because he is a forward he is a chance to stay, but he is borderline for me.

Talia - solid defender and definitely worth keeping. Will come along next year and hopefully take the place of Shaggy.

Austin - for me hasn't done enough to get elevated, but is worth keeping on the rookie list.

Campbell - another who has shown glimpses, but not enough for a permanent elevation. Really needs to build his tank so he can get to more contests. Also struggles to hold marks in AFL. Worth perservering with.


Hooper - gone

Mulligan - gone

Panos - you have to think that he is gone. I can't comment as I haven't seen him play other than in pre-season where I though he looked ok.

Hill - same as Panos.

[GVGjr]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

You mean Skinner don't you Fredi?