ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

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  • Greystache
    Bulldog Team of the Century
    • Dec 2009
    • 9775

    Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

    Originally posted by bornadog
    I have said this all along, not only Thompson, but his assistants (yes Macca) must have known what was going on. You can't have 34 players being injected and the coaches know nothing about it, that is utter rubbish.

    If Thompson was so concerned, why didn't he blow the whistle early on. Lots of questions in my mind about every one at that club. I don't blame just Hird, I blame everyone at that club at that time.
    McCartney was appointed coach of the Bulldogs in September 2011, Dank wasn't even employed by Essendon at the time and Robinson had only been at the club a couple of weeks. Let's not miss a chance to bash McCartney however.
    [COLOR="#FF0000"][B]Western Bulldogs:[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="#0000CD"][B]We exist to win premierships[/B][/COLOR]

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    • Bornadog
      WOOF Clubhouse Leader
      • Jan 2007
      • 67319

      Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

      Originally posted by Greystache
      McCartney was appointed coach of the Bulldogs in September 2011, Dank wasn't even employed by Essendon at the time and Robinson had only been at the club a couple of weeks. Let's not miss a chance to bash McCartney however.
      Wasn't a chance to bash Macca. I will admit my dates may be wrong.

      After checking with Google, it was August 2011 when Hird decided to enquire about Peptides. My post is still relevant about Thompson and the assistant coaches during the program. (reference to Macca has been deleted.)
      FFC: Established 1883

      Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

      Comment

      • Webby
        WOOF Member
        • Jul 2012
        • 1880

        Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

        I'm sure I dislike Essendon more than 99.999% of the population. However I find myself almost hoping that they are found guilty, yet receive no more than a slap on the wrist.

        Reason being, I truly believe that, from a list viewpoint, Essendon are in "no man's land." Mass suspensions will only cause them to plummet down the ladder and receive decent top-up draft picks. I'd actually prefer them to meander along with an ageing list in mid-table obscurity.

        Also, if they're prceived to have gotten off lightly, we can all hate them even more. In addition, their nutter supporters can't make excuses for being shit. No finals win for a 12th, 13th, 14th season in a row will just be as a result of them simply being poorly run. No siege mentality, no "us against the world" guff. The perception can be that of just another bunch of dills who got off lightly.

        However I still want them declared guilty. That's. Non-negotiable for me.

        Comment

        • westdog54
          Bulldog Team of the Century
          • Jan 2007
          • 6686

          Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

          Originally posted by 1eyedog
          Who gives a crap anymore, what will be will be. The only stake I have in this is whether Crammers can play for us this year or not but really he'll get the same as the rest of them. The investigation and the appeals will run its course over time but it will take 50 years for the Essendon Football Club to get over this. Every time they run out onto the ground they will be booed because the ugly poo stain they have left on the fabric of AFL stinks and will be long lasting. I'm fatigued of it all to be honest and have blocked it out of my conscious, just as I have blocked out most non-Bulldogs AFL garble over the last few years.
          I am resigned to the fact that Crameri probably won't play for us this year. And I'm prepared to accept that I'd it means that Essendon cup their right whack. The integrity of the sport is paramount in my eyes.

          Comment

          • 1eyedog
            Hall of Fame
            • Mar 2008
            • 13312

            Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

            Originally posted by Webby
            I'm sure I dislike Essendon more than 99.999% of the population. However I find myself almost hoping that they are found guilty, yet receive no more than a slap on the wrist.

            Reason being, I truly believe that, from a list viewpoint, Essendon are in "no man's land." Mass suspensions will only cause them to plummet down the ladder and receive decent top-up draft picks. I'd actually prefer them to meander along with an ageing list in mid-table obscurity.

            Also, if they're prceived to have gotten off lightly, we can all hate them even more. In addition, their nutter supporters can't make excuses for being shit. No finals win for a 12th, 13th, 14th season in a row will just be as a result of them simply being poorly run. No siege mentality, no "us against the world" guff. The perception can be that of just another bunch of dills who got off lightly.

            However I still want them declared guilty. That's. Non-negotiable for me.
            I think part of the punishment needs to be a loss of draft picks over x amount of years, similar to what Carlton faced with the salary cap breaches of the early 2000s. Those losses set Carlton back 10 years and the same needs to be applied to Essendon. Like you I do not want to see them load up on top 3 players over the next 2-3 years and be top 4 again by 2020.
            But then again, I'm an Internet poster and Bevo is a premiership coach so draw your own conclusions.

            Comment

            • LostDoggy
              WOOF Member
              • Jan 2007
              • 8307

              Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

              Back in Feb 2013 this would have been the plan laid out by Essendon. Drag it through the courts for years, and by the time it actually gets before a tribunal everybody will be sick to death of it and just wanting it done with, and more willing to accept a token punishment. I have absolutely ZERO faith in them getting their just desserts. There's just too much money involved, too many politics. My father-in-law is a champion marathon swimmer and heavily involved in swimming administration, and cannot believe that we're at this point, unless of course you look at the money equation. Banning Olympic athletes doesn't have the same flow-on financial effects of banning an entire team in a sport that is widely acknowledged to be more about the almighty dollar than serious competition. It's not just the blue-tie cronies at AFL House to contend with. Essendon would have in the region of half a million supporters nation-wide. The ANZAC Day game is one of the biggest events of the year. The entire competition revolves around these “powerhouse” clubs. It's about more than brand or integrity (unfortunately) the entire financial health of the league is at stake. Nobody wants to see AFL go the way of cycling but it's almost inevitable. In a way, they took first steps down this path in the nineties and early 2000s as the gulf between rich and poor was solidified with shonky stadium deals, free agency, blockbuster games and the introduction of four new teams in 20 years, all geared towards TV and cash cash cash, at the expense of the only other clubs in the competition outside of the Big Six who could even hope to carry the candle if one or more of these big clubs went down. Even Carlton, Collingwood or Richmond would struggle to fill Essendon's hole. Essendon knows this and have banked on this truth to get them through. I hate this too, but it is the reality, gentlemen. If Essendon are to receive a penalty actually befitting the crime, the entire comp will have to pay it.

              What I believe we'll see is a penalty harsh enough to appease WADA, whilst being as lenient as possible within that context. 4–6 weeks of actual game time missed is my short money.

              Comment

              • Sedat
                Hall of Fame
                • Sep 2007
                • 11456

                Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

                Originally posted by BornAScragger
                Back in Feb 2013 this would have been the plan laid out by Essendon. Drag it through the courts for years, and by the time it actually gets before a tribunal everybody will be sick to death of it and just wanting it done with, and more willing to accept a token punishment. I have absolutely ZERO faith in them getting their just desserts.
                I share this unease but there are two words that give me hope - Lance Armstrong. Taking him and his cheating team down was high stakes but it was done. It caused all sorts of complications and unrest outside of the sport and in the wider community but it was still done with interest.

                WADA simply cannot (and ultimately I believe will not) let some pissant competition played in 1 country in the world set a precedent for all the other global sports. It simply has to be 18 months/2 years for the 34 players backdated from November 2014 for WADA not to challenge it. And if it ends up being that, it's a strong enough deterrent for other clubs/players to consider trying it ever again.
                "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

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                • Maddog37
                  WOOF Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 3132

                  Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

                  I want the Bombers buried totally. I don't care about the cost to the competition itself. These type of drug programs need to be eradicated and the penalties must be that strong that they deter people from even contemplating going down this road.

                  Comment

                  • Greystache
                    Bulldog Team of the Century
                    • Dec 2009
                    • 9775

                    Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

                    Originally posted by Sedat
                    I share this unease but there are two words that give me hope - Lance Armstrong. Taking him and his cheating team down was high stakes but it was done. It caused all sorts of complications and unrest outside of the sport and in the wider community but it was still done with interest.

                    WADA simply cannot (and ultimately I believe will not) let some pissant competition played in 1 country in the world set a precedent for all the other global sports. It simply has to be 18 months/2 years for the 34 players backdated from November 2014 for WADA not to challenge it. And if it ends up being that, it's a strong enough deterrent for other clubs/players to consider trying it ever again.
                    It took until Armstrong was well entrenched in retirement before they got him however. Had he still been competing, and been responsible for a massive amount of the revenue and marketing for the sport, I doubt there would have been the as much appetite or cooperation to get him. The majority in the Essendon case are still involved in the game, and as such it is a far more explosive situation than to simply punish in hindsight.
                    [COLOR="#FF0000"][B]Western Bulldogs:[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="#0000CD"][B]We exist to win premierships[/B][/COLOR]

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                    • bulldogtragic
                      The List Manager
                      • Jan 2007
                      • 34289

                      Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

                      Closest to the pin.... Which 'journo' is going to come out first with the inside info on the decision prior to the announcement?
                      Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

                      Comment

                      • Before I Die
                        Senior Player
                        • Jul 2008
                        • 1033

                        Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

                        Originally posted by Sedat
                        I share this unease but there are two words that give me hope - Lance Armstrong. Taking him and his cheating team down was high stakes but it was done. It caused all sorts of complications and unrest outside of the sport and in the wider community but it was still done with interest.

                        WADA simply cannot (and ultimately I believe will not) let some pissant competition played in 1 country in the world set a precedent for all the other global sports. It simply has to be 18 months/2 years for the 34 players backdated from November 2014 for WADA not to challenge it. And if it ends up being that, it's a strong enough deterrent for other clubs/players to consider trying it ever again.
                        This is my hope also. The AFL has been the biggest game in town forever in Victoria and the boys club at the top has begun to believe their own spin. WADA have dealt with much bigger sporting associations across the world and they will not bend over for the AFL or the Essendon Football Club. James Hird might be a Sporting God at Windy hill, but Lance Armstrong was a Sporting God all around the world.

                        Having said all that, I would be happy to see the players cop a light punishment if the club truly took full responsibility and removed everybody who knew what was going on at the time. Unfortunately, that is not going to happen.
                        The Angels have the phone box. [SIZE="2"]Don't blink![/SIZE]

                        Comment

                        • Dancin' Douggy
                          WOOF Member
                          • Oct 2007
                          • 2876

                          Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

                          I'm with you maddog. I'm wishing doomsday scenario on their asses. I can't stomach the thought of Hird emerging out of the smoke a hero. The very thought of it sickens me.
                          He, and they, are cheats. Full stop.

                          Comment

                          • hujsh
                            Hall of Fame
                            • Nov 2007
                            • 11888

                            Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

                            Originally posted by 1eyedog
                            I think part of the punishment needs to be a loss of draft picks over x amount of years, similar to what Carlton faced with the salary cap breaches of the early 2000s. Those losses set Carlton back 10 years and the same needs to be applied to Essendon. Like you I do not want to see them load up on top 3 players over the next 2-3 years and be top 4 again by 2020.
                            And considering that what Essendon did was clearly worse than what Carlton did that's the minimum they deserve
                            [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

                            Comment

                            • Sedat
                              Hall of Fame
                              • Sep 2007
                              • 11456

                              Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

                              Originally posted by Greystache
                              It took until Armstrong was well entrenched in retirement before they got him however. Had he still been competing, and been responsible for a massive amount of the revenue and marketing for the sport, I doubt there would have been the as much appetite or cooperation to get him. The majority in the Essendon case are still involved in the game, and as such it is a far more explosive situation than to simply punish in hindsight.
                              Stripping Armstrong of all his tour victories and effectively putting an asterisk beside his entire career shouldn't be discounted because it happened after his career ended. Likewise Marion Jones. These were long investigations - far longer than Essendon - that ultimately discredited major careers of global athletes.
                              "Look at me mate. Look at me. I'm flyin'"

                              Comment

                              • Greystache
                                Bulldog Team of the Century
                                • Dec 2009
                                • 9775

                                Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

                                Not guilty
                                [COLOR="#FF0000"][B]Western Bulldogs:[/B][/COLOR] [COLOR="#0000CD"][B]We exist to win premierships[/B][/COLOR]

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