Tim English and the ruck dilemma

[chef]

In rating Tim, how many games have we lost because the oppo. ruck outgunned Tim by a huge margin. I would say none.

If he is at least close to neutralising the effect of the oppo. ruck and we are winning more games than we lose then he is on the right side of the ledger.

Nothing to see here.

Does the GF count?

[doggies ftw]

In rating Tim, how many games have we lost because the oppo. ruck outgunned Tim by a huge margin. I would say none.

If he is at least close to neutralising the effect of the oppo. ruck and we are winning more games than we lose then he is on the right side of the ledger.

Nothing to see here.

Yeah that’s a pretty outrageous call, we’ve lost a heap of games and many as recently as last year, in which Tim was humiliated by his opponent. Adelaide, Port, Hawks etc literally in his last 10 games. Was he the sole reason we lost? No of course not this is AFL, rarely do you lose based on 1 person or position on the ground.

was he a huge part of the problem in those losses? Absolutely. Probably the biggest problem. The rot starts in the middle in each of those games.

he never neutralises the ruck that’s the problem, someone did great analysis on it on bigfooty and most ruckman in the league have their season best games against Tim. That’s already started again this year although tbf Xerri & TDK are 2 of the best, so will cut him some slack until we see more match ups but that’s completely my issue with him. If he offered what he offered but somewhat neutralised the ruck I would be fine with it but he doesn’t, he allows the oppo ruck to dominate way too often

[hujsh]

Does the GF count?

That was mostly while Martin was in the middle to be fair to Tim.

There are enough other finals we can point to in Tim's case

[Rusty12]

Tim has had his 2nd and 3rd worst rated games since mid-2020 to start this year. He's been a frustrating player over the journey and probably was given more opportunity than was earned but his 2022-2023 seasons were elite with his intercept marking and clearance work both features.

Last year a bit disappointing only relative to the heights of 2023. But now THIS YEAR his strengths are nowhere to be seen. The clean hands below the knees, reading of the flight of the ball and assuredness backing back in defence. He's out of the handball club, membership revoked.

To me, although he will never be a big bruising ruckman with presence, he plays his best football when he at least TRIES to be an arsehole. Would like to see him make a statement game against Fremantle/Jackson to set himself back on track. Otherwise it could be a long five years ahead for him and the club.

I am not going to argue, Tim is not at his best and has his flaws as a ruckman.
Not your quote, but as below, pinning a loss on one player is pretty hard to do, and is usually just bias.
Does Tim have poor performances that impact a result negatively? of course, more often than we would like last year, yes.
When you say Tim has had his 2nd and 3rd worst-rated games since 2020, what are you referring to? I know in my own ratings he has been really poor, however his game against Carlton was okay.

[chef]

That was mostly while Martin was in the middle to be fair to Tim.

There are enough other finals we can point to in Tim's case

Was it Jackson v English late in the 3rd?

[hujsh]

Was it Jackson v English late in the 3rd?

I believe not but will never check

[chef]

I believe not but will never check

Maybe GG is best to answer

[Uninformed]

Yeah that’s a pretty outrageous call, we’ve lost a heap of games and many as recently as last year, in which Tim was humiliated by his opponent. Adelaide, Port, Hawks etc literally in his last 10 games. Was he the sole reason we lost? No of course not this is AFL, rarely do you lose based on 1 person or position on the ground.

was he a huge part of the problem in those losses? Absolutely. Probably the biggest problem. The rot starts in the middle in each of those games.

he never neutralises the ruck that’s the problem, someone did great analysis on it on bigfooty and most ruckman in the league have their season best games against Tim. That’s already started again this year although tbf Xerri & TDK are 2 of the best, so will cut him some slack until we see more match ups but that’s completely my issue with him. If he offered what he offered but somewhat neutralised the ruck I would be fine with it but he doesn’t, he allows the oppo ruck to dominate way too often

Nah. Tim is a net positive to our team week in week out. Stats. like HO and HOA are not leading indicators. What he gives us is a tremendous advantage and it is a long time since we had a ruck as good as Tim.

[jeemak]

I can't abide pinning losses primarily on one or two players. It's basic, borderline ignorant and not worth engaging with.

This whole Tim English dilemma concept is completely ****ed in the head. You know why? Because the club has gone a particular way, hasn't chosen a single contingency for it, and has settled the argument internally anyway. What the **** does anyone think they'll get out of worrying about it?

It's mind numbingly clear any argument about Tim is moot. He is what he is, his position in the side is what it is. Let's not be dogs barking at the wind.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

he never neutralises the ruck that’s the problem, someone did great analysis on it on bigfooty and most ruckman in the league have their season best games against Tim. That’s already started again this year although tbf Xerri & TDK are 2 of the best, so will cut him some slack until we see more match ups but that’s completely my issue with him. If he offered what he offered but somewhat neutralised the ruck I would be fine with it but he doesn’t, he allows the oppo ruck to dominate way too often

For mine Tim’s problem is that he isn’t as effective around the ground. He doesn’t out body other rucks and doesn’t get enough of the ball around the ground. He was a great player to transition through and would consistently get over 20 touches with 80% meaningful.

for some reason this has changed. Maybe game plan maybe personal. But with seeing TDC running havoc and Tim nowhere to be seen is the largest issue I have right now. I think he just needs to go back to basics and become that outlet kick then turn and go and burn the oppo with licking a few goals.

even his goal kicking ability seems to have gone. Just like his confidence

[doggies ftw]

Nah. Tim is a net positive to our team week in week out. Stats. like HO and HOA are not leading indicators. What he gives us is a tremendous advantage and it is a long time since we had a ruck as good as Tim.

Yeah sure, welcome to 2023.

We haven’t had a ‘tremendous’ advantage in at least 25 games…

[Uninformed]

Yeah sure, welcome to 2023.

We haven’t had a ‘tremendous’ advantage in at least 25 games…

Patience Grasshopper.

[Scorlibo]

I am not going to argue, Tim is not at his best and has his flaws as a ruckman.
Not your quote, but as below, pinning a loss on one player is pretty hard to do, and is usually just bias.
Does Tim have poor performances that impact a result negatively? of course, more often than we would like last year, yes.
When you say Tim has had his 2nd and 3rd worst-rated games since 2020, what are you referring to? I know in my own ratings he has been really poor, however his game against Carlton was okay.

Yes, the focus on Tim, and on any given single player, is over the top. I've been a backer of him and still am, but just find his recent form cause for concern.

I'm referring to the official AFL player ratings.

[Uninformed]

Tim is definitely off his best, but is still pretty good. He will regain his form in time.

[Mantis]

Tim is definitely off his best, but is still pretty good. He will regain his form in time.

Define what you mean by pretty good?

Rightly or wrongly back in 2023 Tim was the AA ruckman, fast forward just over a year and he’d struggle to be in the competitions best 10 rucks… it’s been a big drop.