2025 Starting Line-Up

[Rusty12]

Yep, agree to disagree. We can both just go off on tangents and not directly address what each other are saying.

Yes, I am focused on a players primary function not where their their magnet sits like an under 12s coach. It is function not position that matters.

Wingmen have a separate function, you can call them outside mid if you like, their function is still different. Not all midfielders have the same function, it is a fact some extract more, some receive more, and some do both. The best players in the comp do both.

Matt Rowell is a good role player for GC. and is a great ball winner. However because of his limitations (One paced, cant kick, cant mark, does not hit the scoreboard) you only have room for 1-2 of his type, hence, less list spots for this type of player.
If you pay this kind of player a huge chunk of your salary cap, you are going in the wrong direction, you can find players to perform this role without early picks or big money.

1 - Butters - If you had 5 players like Bont or Butters, you don't need the other type of "inside" midfielders. He is elite at all phases
2 - Gulden Elite "outside" mid, however last year, played approx 30% of his game time as an "inside" mid, so not sure what to call him. Either way, he is an elite runner, user and continues to improve his ball winning ability, which would put him in the Butters and Bont category
3/4 - Warner/Marra - I would take whichever one is cheaper. Both of them, their good is really good; however, their bad is bad, highlighted by our elim final and Warners GF. Warner cheats too much, trying to get the easy ball forward of stoppage, and does not run hard enough defensively.

I hope Marra explodes, and sky rockets to no 1 this year!

[Rusty12]

I honestly have no words right now.

Not sure why you think:

1/. Throwing darts is called for.
2/. There is anything wrong with coaching the u12's? Pretty important job if you ask me...

If you want to invent labels and call players extractors or whatever - have at it. But that's not a thing. It just isn't. Yes - players are better at some elements of the game than others (I mean of course) but to suggest guys are designated extractors or whatever word you want to use in AFL Coaching boxes you are simply wrong. They are called inside or outside, their individual strengths and weaknesses are openly discussed, they will be continuously challenged to emphasise their strengths/remediate their weaknesses, etc.

Not sure I said anything negative about U12 coaching? However the job description is more like herding cats than it is coaching in the AFL.

I am not sure what your experience is in an AFL coaches box, list management decisions, or match committee however, you seem confident about what goes on in there. I am sure you have a good reason for it, and to help with the discussion, I can use inside and outside terms so we can at least discuss things.

In my experience working inside an AFL football department, the focus was not on magnets and position titles but on function and putting players in a position to use their strengths.
I haven't invented labels, and they are the types of things used by Champion Data to assess a players role and strengths/weaknesses.

[Jasper]

1 - Butters - If you had 5 players like Bont or Butters, you don't need the other type of "inside" midfielders. He is elite at all phases
2 - Gulden Elite "outside" mid, however last year, played approx 30% of his game time as an "inside" mid, so not sure what to call him. Either way, he is an elite runner, user and continues to improve his ball winning ability, which would put him in the Butters and Bont category
3/4 - Warner/Marra - I would take whichever one is cheaper. Both of them, their good is really good; however, their bad is bad, highlighted by our elim final and Warners GF. Warner cheats too much, trying to get the easy ball forward of stoppage, and does not run hard enough defensively.

I hope Marra explodes, and sky rockets to no 1 this year!

Thank you Rusty for your contributions to the discussions. We have picked up some really good new members are it's heartening to see this level of participation.

[Uninformed]

1 - Butters - If you had 5 players like Bont or Butters, you don't need the other type of "inside" midfielders. He is elite at all phases
2 - Gulden Elite "outside" mid, however last year, played approx 30% of his game time as an "inside" mid, so not sure what to call him. Either way, he is an elite runner, user and continues to improve his ball winning ability, which would put him in the Butters and Bont category
3/4 - Warner/Marra - I would take whichever one is cheaper. Both of them, their good is really good; however, their bad is bad, highlighted by our elim final and Warners GF. Warner cheats too much, trying to get the easy ball forward of stoppage, and does not run hard enough defensively.

I hope Marra explodes, and sky rockets to no 1 this year!

Can see it with Butters and, like you, would love to see Marra take the game by the scruff of the neck and dominate this year.

The attraction for me with Gulden is that he is something that we don't have whereas Butters would probably have to be a Libba replacement.

But all hypothetical. I think we are in good shape for this year.

[Go_Dogs]

In my experience working inside an AFL football department, the focus was not on magnets and position titles but on function and putting players in a position to use their strengths.
I haven't invented labels, and they are the types of things used by Champion Data to assess a players role and strengths/weaknesses.

Paint me interested to hear more.

[Grantysghost]

Butters is all we need.

Gulden sucks.

There I said it

[Go_Dogs]

Butters is all we need.

Gulden sucks.

There I said it

Gulden is pretty damn good, but it helps when you play next to Warner and Heeney too.

Butters would be my preference too. Partly because he’s got mongrel and supported the Dogs.

[Grantysghost]

Gulden is pretty damn good, but it helps when you play next to Warner and Heeney too.

Butters would be my preference too. Partly because he’s got mongrel and supported the Dogs.

Yeah he is, but...I feel when the whips are cracking I want a Butters type.

[GVGjr]

Butters is all we need.

Gulden sucks.

There I said it

Your pants should technically be on fire

[jeemak]

Butters needs to have a big impact in the next set of finals he plays in to cement himself as a genuine rolled gold player. He was hampered in 2024, pretty good in 2023 and a bit ordinary in 2022.

I know he's just probably saving his best for when he inevitably helps lead us to glory after his imminent trade our way, but until then it's fringe as to whether he has what it takes when the whips are cracking.

[NAUGHTY100]

Thanks for the great insight. It is really enjoyable reading people who know something about the game discuss it. Some great insights for the likes of me.

It is a bit unrelated though still connected, but if you could have just one of these four players which do you think would make the greatest difference and improve us the most.

Would you choose Gulden, Warner, Butters or Marra and why?

Same question to Rusty and others.

Firstly theres no way im trading Marra , cos i just know the minute we trade him he explodes and becomes the next Lockett , or what ever full forward who dominated his era , so Marra stays , Butters is elite and would be worth every penny we pay him , but to be honest in my opinion Gulden is the one id chose only because , to me he would be our Hunter upgrade and i mean upgrade imagine him getting it 25 times a game but delivering it chest height to the likes of Marra and Darcy 20 times a game , that there my friends would be the difference between struggling into 6th or 7th place or top 4 , Warner is a bit hit and miss for me brilliant one week but when he gets held not much out put but Gulden with that lethal left foot would be a god send for us , but if we missed out on Gulden but got Butters id still be as happy as a pig in you know what

[NAUGHTY100]

Butters is all we need.

Gulden sucks.

There I said it

Sorry Grantysghost haha, but i agree to disagree with you about this one , but boy oh boy wouldn't we be happy with either Gulden or Butters, we can only dream right .

[jeemak]

Firstly theres no way im trading Marra , cos i just know the minute we trade him he explodes and becomes the next Lockett , or what ever full forward who dominated his era , so Marra stays , Butters is elite and would be worth every penny we pay him , but to be honest in my opinion Gulden is the one id chose only because , to me he would be our Hunter upgrade and i mean upgrade imagine him getting it 25 times a game but delivering it chest height to the likes of Marra and Darcy 20 times a game , that there my friends would be the difference between struggling into 6th or 7th place or top 4 , Warner is a bit hit and miss for me brilliant one week but when he gets held not much out put but Gulden with that lethal left foot would be a god send for us , but if we missed out on Gulden but got Butters id still be as happy as a pig in you know what

But what's the point of keeping a player who won't do that with us, and depriving ourselves of someone who might add higher value to us?

I'm not saying I want to trade Marra, in fact I love the shit out of him and think we're the right place for him. But it might turn out at the end of this year he doesn't sign, and no ****ing way am I not trading him when his value is high and enabling a royal ****ing at the trade table to befall us like it has the last few seasons if we decide to hang on until the end of his contract period.

So under those circumstances, who gives a shit what he turns into if it's not going to benefit us? I'll take Gulden, Butters, all the first round draft picks, Warner or whoever/ whatever. If Marra doesn't extend this year I want him gone at this year's trade period.

[soupman]

Of the 3 non dogs Gulden please. Butters is great and maybe the best of the 4 but I think is a touch injury prone and reckon he might be one that struggles past 28. Gulden offers an elite outside mid in a way we don't have, with a kicking weapon and ability to cover ground that is hard to go past.

Jamarra is already very good, but still has some very frustrating aspects to his game. I do think he has a higher ceiling than the others, but probably has the furthest to go to reach it.

[Critter]

Firstly theres no way im trading Marra , cos i just know the minute we trade him he explodes and becomes the next Lockett , or what ever full forward who dominated his era , so Marra stays , Butters is elite and would be worth every penny we pay him , but to be honest in my opinion Gulden is the one id chose only because , to me he would be our Hunter upgrade and i mean upgrade imagine him getting it 25 times a game but delivering it chest height to the likes of Marra and Darcy 20 times a game , that there my friends would be the difference between struggling into 6th or 7th place or top 4 , Warner is a bit hit and miss for me brilliant one week but when he gets held not much out put but Gulden with that lethal left foot would be a god send for us , but if we missed out on Gulden but got Butters id still be as happy as a pig in you know what

Great quote. Great punctuation. I felt that I was fully immersed in Episode 18 of James Joyce's "Ulysses".