2021 Trade Period Talk

[Mantis]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

For mine, an A GRADE ruck and an A GRADE full back (allowing Keath to intercept) are absolute givens.
Grundy and Moore = perfect, but that’s a pipe dream and isn’t going to happen.

But this is the type of players I’m talking about. Guys that will be automatic selection, make our team instantly higher grade, and will play every game. How we get these types of players I have no idea. I’m not in BT’s league, but this club needs to be ruthless with this.

Must be nice living in some sort of fantasy land with no salary cap and endless supply of draft picks.

Understand you’re not in BT’s league (no of us have his imagination), but you need to set realistic expectations unless you’re willing to trade JUH and another A grader.

[DOG GOD]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Must be nice living in some sort of fantasy land with no salary cap and endless supply of draft picks.

Understand you’re not in BT’s league (no of us have his imagination), but you need to set realistic expectations unless you’re willing to trade JUH and another A grader.

But that’s my point Mantis. Those Pies players aren’t relatistic. I said it was a pipe dream. I’m more just pointing out the caliber of players that I’m only interested in. Ceglar? Lynch? Ladhams? Etc etc…these are just B/C grade plodders that won’t instantly make us a better team.

I really don’t care who we go after, coz I know the likes of Grundy and Moore won’t be at our club next year.
But one can dream.

[MrMahatma]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Must be nice living in some sort of fantasy land with no salary cap and endless supply of draft picks.

Understand you’re not in BT’s league (no of us have his imagination), but you need to set realistic expectations unless you’re willing to trade JUH and another A grader.

Do we have cap space for an A-Grader? If an A-Grader is going to be, say $650k+ minimum... probably more per year.

I'd be surprised if we're able to bring in 2 guns, but maybe we can get someone who is underperforming/under utilised in their current club, or someone like Keath who is an A-grader but probably doesn't have the years and years of high-performance to warrant the big price tag (yet).

No idea who that is, but as much as I'd love Grundy I think we can all recognise we can't fit $1mil a year in our cap (probably) unless we move out someone who is on serious coin already (or Collingwood pay 30% again )

[DOG GOD]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Do we have cap space for an A-Grader? If an A-Grader is going to be, say $650k+ minimum... probably more per year.

I'd be surprised if we're able to bring in 2 guns, but maybe we can get someone who is underperforming/under utilised in their current club, or someone like Keath who is an A-grader but probably doesn't have the years and years of high-performance to warrant the big price tag (yet).

No idea who that is, but as much as I'd love Grundy I think we can all recognise we can't fit $1mil a year in our cap (probably) unless we move out someone who is on serious coin already (or Collingwood pay 30% again )

What’s JJ on ? $600,000?

So let’s put it in perspective…
$600k for JJ
1 mill for Grundy.

I’d know what I’d rather

[chef]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

We are only going to trade guys who want to leave, so fringe footballers with not much value.

We arent going to push out stars. Recipe for disaster imo.

What free agents are available in terms of rucks and KPDs?

[Mantis]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

What’s JJ on ? $600,000?

So let’s put it in perspective…
$600k for JJ
1 mill for Grundy.

I’d know what I’d rather

What's English on? Probably the same as JJ and at least in a former life JJ was an A grader... what is English giving us? He was chopped up on the weekend by Petty who would be on minimum wage and wouldn't even be playing if Tomlinson was fit.

I have big doubts he's ever going to be the player we need him to be so if there is any interest for him to go back to Perth I'd be doing what we can to make it happen.

[DOG GOD]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

What's English on? Probably the same as JJ and at least in a former life JJ was an A grader... what is English giving us? He was chopped up on the weekend by Petty who would be on minimum wage and wouldn't even be playing if Tomlinson was fit.

I have big doubts he's ever going to be the player we need him to be so if there is any interest for him to go back to Perth I'd be doing what we can to make it happen.

I agree on English.
I think Bevo realises what we all do.

[azabob]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

We are only going to trade guys who want to leave, so fringe footballers with not much value.

We arent going to push out stars. Recipe for disaster imo.

What free agents are available in terms of rucks and KPDs?

Chef I don’t disagree but we can’t carry English anymore. If we do we are wasting another year of Bontempelli.

English isn’t a first ruck and is an ineffective 2nd forward.

I’ve lost all faith in him becoming aggressive enough to do what we need him to do.

He is out of contract end of 2022 - we need to act now to get the most bang for our buck.

[soupman]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

We have plenty of A graders (and JUH coming through who optimistically gets there). Our issue isn't lack of talent, it's structural deficiencies and certain mental weaknesses.

A ruckman and a better key defender would be very helpful (I'm not even convinced we "need" the latter as we got by pretty well this year), but a change in mindset from our A graders in crucial vulnerable moments makes us a much better side. I'd almost argue that bringing in two B graders who are willing to do the shit stuff better would make a more positive impact than bringing in two A graders that make us look better on paper but don't fix any structural deficiencies.

I mean Treloar is an A grader we brought in, and while he has had a pretty good impact I'm not sure he was what made us better this year, and I'm not sure he addressed our weaknesses in an overly meaningful manner.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

What's English on? Probably the same as JJ and at least in a former life JJ was an A grader... what is English giving us? He was chopped up on the weekend by Petty who would be on minimum wage and wouldn't even be playing if Tomlinson was fit.

I have big doubts he's ever going to be the player we need him to be so if there is any interest for him to go back to Perth I'd be doing what we can to make it happen.

I agree. From a strategic perspective at least JJ & English are under contract so that’s something. The thought I’ve been having since Saturday Night is to get another ‘Treloar Deal’. What I mean is, after freeing up some cap, target a decent enough player where the club doesn’t want the financial liability and trade him for ‘unders’. So far we know Lobb & Ladhams contracts have their clubs looking to move them on. With Bruce & English not there next year possibly, these guys fit the bill and can we use our cap to snatch a bargain. Collingwood & Sydney also serious cap issues. Can we squeeze someone out?

Say for argument Freo/Lobb and PA/Ladhams demanded Pick 17, just for argument. Say we took on the lion share of the dollars, we trade down Pick 17 for Draft Points and send them a pick in the 20’s and Bank the rest for draft points.

I was reflecting on your point earlier Mantis about two years of picks largely stalled in the context of Hawthorn 2012. Facts are you’re right. So how do we bring in talent to help us go one step further? Mine the FA’s who are cooked in the areas we want, like Casboult or Talia or Davis etc. That’s a hard pass from me. But I would get Jamaine Jones as a FA as a pressure forward.

So we need to stick to trade. Pick 72 by compo will not have draft points. If Young & 72 can upgrade us into points that’s something. Or add it into another trade with a slight upgrade. So that’s half of our existing picks dealt with.

I can’t really see us avoiding a deficit if Darcy goes at Pick 3. On that basis I’d be trading the 2022 First Rounder. For the best available player of NEED. Ideally a legit first ruck.

A good first ruck, Ladhams/Lobb to replace English (cheaper taking $), Jamaine Jones

- Schache moves to defence with Keath, Gardner, Cordy
- Naughton, Lobb/Ladhams, Marra, Darcy (on paper) - Hannan - Weightman, VDM, Jones
- Martin moves to Rookie List as back up
- Picks from JJ, English & Lipinski (Lippa maybe a future too) to Sam Darcy (Wallis & Young not worth much)
- We need to address the CBA mix. The speed of Smith & Treloar added to Bont would be nice. Libba is a god. Macrae might have to go to a wing. Dunkley perhaps more forward time

I’d ask Wood to retire. I doubt Crozier has interest but is contracted

I’d look very, very closely at MacPherson & Raak as they’ll be free hits most likely and bring in some non KPD defensive players for when sits open up down the track from Wood, Doc, Crozier and Raak coverage for Khamis if he doesn’t make the grade.

That’s a lot of outs: English, JJ, Lippa, Young, Wallis, Jong, Martin (to RL), Cavarra & Hayes

There’s so many moving parts it’s hard to keep on top of it. But I think we need to be aggressive at the trade table. Tinkering at the edges to me doesn’t make me believe 2022 will certainly be better. Other clubs will improving next year. We need to get ahead of them. If we free up cap space, get back some trade capital, get the best ruck we can, identify some dollar heavy players that we can can get some mild ‘unders’ and look for value like Jones and then Draft Nights the likes of Darcy, MacPherson, Raak and look to some state league talls then we are ahead. Despite the long list of potential outs we are only losing maybe 10 good AFL games between them this year. Where I think it will come undone is if we still don’t really believe in heavily investing in a ruck. That, and if we go small target with the sole aim of avoiding a deficit this year. Well will we have some good fringe players and a first rounder next year to think about what to do with.

I’d have a polite inquiry with clubs with Pre Agents of need. Knowing it’s unlikely. McStay, Barass & Moore are the headline defenders.

But I have faith in Sam Power. He knows how to pull off a ‘Treloar Trade’ so I’m hoping he’s been working on who we can get at the best trade price. We need value, not to ‘win’ like a certain club. That and to be bold and aggressive in a premiership window. Not stupid or far fetched, but a clear sense of purpose to make the 2022 finals team a better team. Sam interview on The Road To Glory podcast shows he’s aware. I hope our performance didn’t put off potential deals, but even after 2016 our glory was Trav Cloke while trading Hamling, Stevens & Hrovat while retiring others.

Let’s hope that like always, Sam Power is quietly doing business well away from the media or trade radio. But should JJ & English request trades, that’s a massive opportunity on top of securing Sam Darcy.

[SquirrelGrip]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I definitely don’t want Naughton to lose both housemates.

[kruder]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Easy thing to say trade English but who to bring in? Lobb/Ladhams? um really? Where is the upgrade?

We are without Bruce most of next year, Martin is basically cooked, you gotta find a legitimate Forward and Ruck to come in or else there is no deal. I cant see it being an option until the year after.

Marra Darcy Schache backing up Naughty next year? No thanks not when you're in the window.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

It’s easy to over react to the grand final but beyond that English still definitely has intensity issues to address

But overall I’d be very very reluctant to trade English - he does have a size and skill and we’ve almost got him to the point of a hardened man after 4-5 preseasons. Part of the mess our ruck division is in is because we haven’t added rucks to the list and been prepared to develop them etc.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Mofra has mentioned Max Lynch a few times. Surely we can do a deal with Collingwood involving Lynch and Lipinski.

[Twodogs]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

No way should we be trading English unless we get an offer that knocks us out of the park.

When it comes to considering offers for him we should employ the same strategy as when you win the toss in cricket and the pitch is a bit green and the conditions are overcast. That is you should think about choosing to bowl and then decide to bat, and if Its a real greentop and you're really tempted to bowl you should talk it through with a couple of experienced teammates and whatever you all decide to do tell the umpires you're going to bat.