2021 Trade Period Talk

[mjp]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

We have future picks that can be traded so we did have some currency. A lot of the trades didn't break the bank

I think that is true but I also think the list management team is looking at our last 2-drafts (I'm including this one) and saying "we have made 2x picks - both key forwards...next year, we NEED to get some players in". I would actually be shocked if they aren't thinking this way...(from that you can interpret that I'm thinking that way.

Those thoughts take away any thoughts of trading out picks next year.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Given the contractual status of English and Sweet it would have been problematic to bring in another ruckman

The deal to re-sign Sweet should come with some investment in his development

If we keep looking for other options, or preferring other options it sends the same message that Lipinski and Young were sent - that you need to go elsewhere. We've preferred other players and they have left.

I think we are clear we want to re-sign English, and I think we erred in not playing Sweet instead of Young - that said I don't know where he was at physically at that time, and hes still got a way to go, but I think he's a far better ruckman than Young.

I'm ok with us prioritising Sweet and English whilst having Martin and adding at least another rookie ruck prospect to the list

[The Pie Man]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Jon Ralph suggests our draft hand / commitment to Darcy hamstrung us.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/afl-trade-news-2021-western-bulldogs-missing-a-ruckman-offseason-trade-period-premiership-list-analysis-david-king-on-trading-day/news-story/a238e1486a1ea33fda3f07058ae204eb

‘Herald Sun reporter Jon Ralph highlighted that Ladhams’ management made contact with the Bulldogs, but the club’s need to retain draft points to match an early bid on father-son prodigy Sam Darcy limited its capacity to broker a trade.’

[GVGjr]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Jon Ralph suggests our draft hand / commitment to Darcy hamstrung us.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/afl-trade-news-2021-western-bulldogs-missing-a-ruckman-offseason-trade-period-premiership-list-analysis-david-king-on-trading-day/news-story/a238e1486a1ea33fda3f07058ae204eb

‘Herald Sun reporter Jon Ralph highlighted that Ladhams’ management made contact with the Bulldogs, but the club’s need to retain draft points to match an early bid on father-son prodigy Sam Darcy limited its capacity to broker a trade.’

It's a fair assessment but we had other options.
I just can't believe that year after year we can't locate established ruck man or good juniors for that matter to come to us which necessitates the need for us to use spare part players to cover any injuries or form slumps.

We are taking a risk so we just have to ride it out.

[Mofra]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Our insistence on having a versatile team makes being a specialist 'hard'. I mean, how can you work on your forward line crumbing skills if you are also expected to be improving your running capacity/game sense to potentially play as the fatside winger? I will maintain forever that the primary driver behind Smith's improved (Roarke this is) form in the past 12-15 months has been the fact that he has played ONE role and stopped being shuttled from HF to O-mid to H-Back from week to week...

Interesting comment when we consider where JJ and Ed Richards sit in terms of their football.
JJ still seems in no mans land most of the time and I just think Richards is a very good defender or a very 'meh' everything else.

[Mofra]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

It's a fair assessment but we had other options.
I just can't believe that year after year we can't locate established ruck man or good juniors for that matter to come to us which necessitates the need for us to use spare part players to cover any injuries or form slumps.

We are taking a risk so we just have to ride it out.

Consider that the Hawks paid 4/5ths of SFA to secure Max Lynch, primarily late future picks.

[mjp]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Interesting comment when we consider where JJ and Ed Richards sit in terms of their football.
JJ still seems in no mans land most of the time and I just think Richards is a very good defender or a very 'meh' everything else.

Yeah - but when you recruit a midfielder and a forward (Williams and Dale) who both become defenders then what happens to the defenders you have already recruited? Where does it leave Crozier, JJ and Richards?

I am perpetually fascinated by this. I mean, generally speaking when you are recruiting players you need to make sure they are going to have to have somewhere to play. So, when you look at your list you would define each position and THEN work out how many of each you can 'carry':

eg.
Ruck - 4
Inside Mid - 5
Outside Mid - 5
Key Back - 4
Medium Back - 4
Small Defender - 2
Key Forward - 4
Medium Forward - 4
Small Forward - 2
Tall-Utility - 2
Medium (not mids) - Utility (2)

(I haven't added the numbers up but you get the idea).

I guess my overall point is how can you structure a LIST when you don't know what you actually have. Do we know what we have? What is Garcia? I mean, we probably know what Schache is and trying him back during the year was a good experiment, but at some point (from a list perspective) if he was going to be a defender then one of the existing defenders would need to move...or be moved OFF the the list.

And I mean, of course it is great to have Treloar at our club. He seems like a genuine guy and is a very talented player. But even if we are 'ONLY' paying him $400k, that is still a list spot and a chunk of cash being given over to a list spot that is really in surplus. I mean, it probably was an opportunity too good to pass up (recruiting him) but if we had that much extra cash available maybe we could have gone all in on Ladhams LAST year? Or maybe made a run at big Oscar from Brisbane rather than Stef? It's all opportunity cost stuff I guess but I still think from a list perspective we never really know what we have because we want each of our players to do 'everything'...

[The Pie Man]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

It's a fair assessment but we had other options.
I just can't believe that year after year we can't locate established ruck man or good juniors for that matter to come to us which necessitates the need for us to use spare part players to cover any injuries or form slumps.

We are taking a risk so we just have to ride it out.

Ladhams for a future second or similar would’ve been worth a look

[Bornadog]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Ladhams for a future second or similar would’ve been worth a look

But they wanted a first and got one.

[Mofra]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

And I mean, of course it is great to have Treloar at our club. He seems like a genuine guy and is a very talented player. But even if we are 'ONLY' paying him $400k, that is still a list spot and a chunk of cash being given over to a list spot that is really in surplus. I mean, it probably was an opportunity too good to pass up (recruiting him) but if we had that much extra cash available maybe we could have gone all in on Ladhams LAST year? Or maybe made a run at big Oscar from Brisbane rather than Stef? It's all opportunity cost stuff I guess but I still think from a list perspective we never really know what we have because we want each of our players to do 'everything'...

I want a ruck as much as anyone but we ruled ourselves out of Ladhams pretty early and barely gave a nip at anyone else. If we had cap space, would we chase anyone?
I'm still not comfortable with our ruck division and preaching 'versatility' then chasing a 34 year old Stef martin who is probably the least versatile player in the comp is interesting to say the least.

Ed was a first round pick and we really do seem to go 'best available' with our first rounders. Croz was also tried forward before settling back, ditto Dale.

All indications from the club are that Tim O'Brien is being brought in purely as an intercept defender. Does that make Wood & Crozier depth?

It's very hard to work out what our players are really - I mean, we break off into groups with line coaches but it seems that in some phases of the game we have 16 defenders on the ground (plus a get-out option + the man on the mark). We had guys like Hannan and Bont ruck in the F50 while English stood in the square for "structure".

[GVGjr]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

But they wanted a first and got one.

There was an exchange for first round picks. Port moved up 4 spots in the first round and then settled for a future 3rd rounder for Ladhams.

First-round draft picks were exchanged in the deal with the Power receiving pick 12 and a future third-round selection, while the Swans nabbed pick 16 as well as Ladhams.

The Swans have to wear a back ended contract.

[Axe Man]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

It was interesting to read that Port had no ruck coach this year and Ladhams spent the whole year training with the forwards. It could go one of 2 ways - he is an untapped talent in the ruck and could become a good ruckman with some more training and experience, or he isn't much of a ruckman at all.

[The Pie Man]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

There was an exchange for first round picks. Port moved up 4 spots in the first round and then settled for a future 3rd rounder for Ladhams.

First-round draft picks were exchanged in the deal with the Power receiving pick 12 and a future third-round selection, while the Swans nabbed pick 16 as well as Ladhams.

The Swans have to wear a back ended contract.

Surely we had a similar deal within our grasp…makes me wonder what our salary cap looks like…

[Bornadog]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

There was an exchange for first round picks. Port moved up 4 spots in the first round and then settled for a future 3rd rounder for Ladhams.

First-round draft picks were exchanged in the deal with the Power receiving pick 12 and a future third-round selection, while the Swans nabbed pick 16 as well as Ladhams.

The Swans have to wear a back ended contract.

Unless we wanted to trade future picks, we had no hope of getting him.

I am happy that next year we will have all our picks and we can recruit some new young blood. The timing is perfect.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Surely we had a similar deal within our grasp…makes me wonder what our salary cap looks like…

I think we can determine that we weren't in anyway interested. Ladhams might not be good for team culture.