2021 Trade Period Talk

[GVGjr]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I guess from Power's comments the expectation is that Sweet will be ready to go after a preseason, which is a big call.

The only thing that contradicts this or offers food for thought is we preferred Young over Sweet late in the year.
I think Sweet can make it as a decent ruck man and maybe we just need to provide him with more opportunities.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

It was reported we spoke to Ladhams and ruled ourselves out pretty early.
I just look at Max Lynch going for a downgrade of a future 3rd round pick and think we're missed a cheap way to bolster our ruck division.

Perhaps he might not have been a great fit from club culture perspective.

[Axe Man]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Perhaps he might not have been a great fit from club culture perspective.

Lynch would have caused us to exceed our mullet cap.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I think they played Lewis because they thought he was better prepared to cover the running component than Sweet was, which I can understand. However, it just shows the massive strides Sweet will need to take to carry more ruck responsibility.

Honestly it's just something that had to be said when we realised we couldn't find something better and had signed up our contingency option (which Sweet was).

Is this the big concern on Sweet so we think? His inability to cover the ground? He’ll be 24 next year. When does it get to the point where you say he just can’t do it? How old was Veprezmi when we let him go I wonder.

[1eyedog]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Nestled amongst three other ruckmen on our list, none of which are both good and reliable. Our ruck situation as far as Lynch is concerned is an open field, to get a game he would simply have to beat out a 36 year old who is never fit, an ineffective ruckman who we prefer to play forward anyway, and a 5 gamer who we rate so highly we picked a key defender ahead of him for a finals series.

To even suggest this is a worse spot to be in than stuck behind Brodie Grundy (and Darcy Cameron) at the Pies is lunacy, I think there's even a case that Mason Cox is bigger competition for his spot than Sweet.

Hi Soup, I'm not referring to Collingwood sorry I'm referring to Hawthorn. My post was related to the Hawks knowing that Ceglar was going to be traded out in mid-September, which was posted on here at the time, so the Hawks were knowingly, and probably quite advanced, in their overtures to Lynch.

Once they decided to get rid of Ceglar there's really no-one in front Lynch there. So he chose the Hawks who will certainly give him the best opportunity to play in 2022. Do you think we would have done the same? Even now we don't know who our ruckman will be in 2022. Power the other day said 'we're really glad to keep Sweet and think he'll take an important step forward and ruck for us next year, along with Martin and English'.

If I'm Lynch and I'm looking athe Dogs, we are just all over the place, have ruckman on the list we aren't playing and seem to favour Martin in front of everyone. Hawthorn just got rid of their Martin, so it's plain sailing for Lynch from here.

I wouldn't be shocked to hear that we talked to all of Ladhams, Ceglar and Lynch and they all said no chance.

[1eyedog]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Ah I just re-read my post and see how you've interpreted it. I still think that's open to debate. When Grundy was injured they played Lynch. He probably has an opportunity to replace Cox as a forward / ruck. Honestly he's probably one behind the pecking order. Where is he at the Dogs? Behind Martin? Behind Sweet? You make a good point about Martin's age, Sweet's inexperience and English's lack of intensity but Lynch has played 2/3 games? How is he in front of other ruckmen on our list? I'll concede that being with us is not worse off, but it aint any better either.

[Axe Man]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Hi Soup, I'm not referring to Collingwood sorry I'm referring to Hawthorn. My post was related to the Hawks knowing that Ceglar was going to be traded out in mid-September, which was posted on here at the time, so the Hawks were knowingly, and probably quite advanced, in their overtures to Lynch.

Once they decided to get rid of Ceglar there's really no-one in front Lynch there. So he chose the Hawks who will certainly give him the best opportunity to play in 2022. Do you think we would have done the same? Even now we don't know who our ruckman will be in 2022. Power the other day said 'we're really glad to keep Sweet and think he'll take an important step forward and ruck for us next year, along with Martin and English'.

If I'm Lynch and I'm looking athe Dogs, we are just all over the place, have ruckman on the list we aren't playing and seem to favour Martin in front of everyone. Hawthorn just got rid of their Martin, so it's plain sailing for Lynch from here.

I wouldn't be shocked to hear that we talked to all of Ladhams, Ceglar and Lynch and they all said no chance.

I'm not sure the Hawks should have been that much more attractive than us for Lynch. McEvoy played every game this year with plenty of ruck time. Reeves has played more AFL games than Lynch and would at least be on an equal footing with him. Lynch isn't a walk up start at the Hawks.

[MrMahatma]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

How old was Veprezmi when we let him go I wonder.

Too young. He’ll come good!

[jeemak]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Is this the big concern on Sweet so we think? His inability to cover the ground? He’ll be 24 next year. When does it get to the point where you say he just can’t do it? How old was Veprezmi when we let him go I wonder.

You mean when we let him go unfairly, given he could still clearly make it if we just gave him a few more years? About 24, but he wasn't a big lumbering ruckman.

I think with someone like Sweet who hasn't been in the elite system since draft age you can expect some time to get his tank up to a level, and should be there by his mid twenties if he's ever going to get there.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

You mean when we let him go unfairly, given he could still clearly make it if we just gave him a few more years? About 24, but he wasn't a big lumbering ruckman.

I think with someone like Sweet who hasn't been in the elite system since draft age you can expect some time to get his tank up to a level, and should be there by his mid twenties if he's ever going to get there.

Too young. He’ll come good!

Still regret letting him go. Would’ve torn the comp apart if he just built his tank.

Yeah I’m certainly happy to give Sweet more time. Lack of VFL doesn’t help either. Just wondering what the MC don’t like about him most. His tank? Something else related to his ruck craft? Or something else related to his ability to play around the ground. The few games he played last year he did some decent things up forward so I don’t think that’d be it.

[hujsh]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Do we revert to the 2016 CamHead/Boydhead of 50/50 ruck forward for English and Sweet?

Sweet's not a bad forward right? Not as mobile and threatening as English but has shown some basic competency to hold his own for say 30-40% forward of total match time (assuming he spends some time on the bench as well)

[Bornadog]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Is this the big concern on Sweet so we think? His inability to cover the ground? He’ll be 24 next year. When does it get to the point where you say he just can’t do it? How old was Veprezmi when we let him go I wonder.

Sweet maybe 23 years old but has missed out on development over two years with VFL stalled. Why didn't we give him more game time in AFL, well after 3 disposals v Melbourne, he went back to VFL, and couldn't get any form back, and then VFL was stopped again.

The club is giving him every opportunity so it is up to him.

[1eyedog]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I'm not sure the Hawks should have been that much more attractive than us for Lynch. McEvoy played every game this year with plenty of ruck time. Reeves has played more AFL games than Lynch and would at least be on an equal footing with him. Lynch isn't a walk up start at the Hawks.

I do agree. It's strange because there is opportunity for a ruckman at the Dogs, but we must also stink of uncertainty re. the ruck role to prospective ruckmen. We've appeared, at least externally and by many who support the club, to have NFI around what we expect of a ruckman within Bevo's game plan. Well I think we do but clearly we have no-one on our list who can execute (except a 35 year old vet who is only just making it from contest to contest). So for anyone looking in, there's opportunity but also a lot of uncertainty. If I'm a new guy just starting my career at a second club I'm thinking the safe option. That's just my take.

It's a bit weird that Bevo said very early on in the trade period that our ruck setup would look different next year and then donuts. He must have meant that we'll simply choose an actual ruckman each week.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I do agree. It's strange because there is opportunity for a ruckman at the Dogs, but we must also stink of uncertainty re. the ruck role to prospective ruckmen. We've appeared, at least externally and by many who support the club, to have NFI around what we expect of a ruckman within Bevo's game plan. Well I think we do but clearly we have no-one on our list who can execute (except a 35 year old vet who is only just making it from contest to contest). So for anyone looking in, there's opportunity but also a lot of uncertainty. If I'm a new guy just starting my career at a second club I'm thinking the safe option. That's just my take.

It's a bit weird that Bevo said very early on in the trade period that our ruck setup would look different next year and then donuts. He must have meant that we'll simply choose an actual ruckman each week.

I agree on your take of the situation except one thing, I think Bevo knows what he really wants, but just hasn't got it, so he improvises. Before the finals he was talking about the rucks, and said he wants Steph to nullify the influence of the opposition ruckman, so the mids can win the stoppages. Steph was brought into the prelim out of desperation as Young was poor in the semi v Brisbane.

I am guessing Bevo wants a Gawn, or Grundy type (so do all clubs), and is not prepared to accept just any old lumbering ruckman into the team. Can you imagine how good we would be with one of those two in our team.

[1eyedog]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I agree on your take of the situation except one thing, I think Bevo knows what he really wants, but just hasn't got it, so he improvises. Before the finals he was talking about the rucks, and said he wants Steph to nullify the influence of the opposition ruckman, so the mids can win the stoppages. Steph was brought into the prelim out of desperation as Young was poor in the semi v Brisbane.

I am guessing Bevo wants a Gawn, or Grundy type (so do all clubs), and is not prepared to accept just any old lumbering ruckman into the team. Can you imagine how good we would be with one of those two in our team.

Yep we'd be super and I did mention it when I mentioned we know what we want but don't have anyone who can execute. If what you say is true I expect Sweet will have another year as a backup and perhaps even a backup to a backup. Is he mobile enough? Can he do enough anround the ground? FWIW I think both Ladhams and Lynch are more mobile than Sweet and potentially provide more value in other areas. But it doesn't mater if we jumped at West Coast's shadow or not, we're stuck with him now and the noise is we'll play him.

I do think that Martin will really struggle next year but he is the one guy on the list that knows what's expected of him and can execute most of it. In terms of the ruck department he's our best chance of implementing what we want in terms of working within a system with consistency. If he goes down or for some reason his form drops off badly we'll be looking to Sweet to step up big time. Can he do it?