Is it time to make a big move?

[lemmon]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

Has the form of Chris Dawes this year changed anyone's thoughts about failing to get him across last year? I was against the move but he would straighten us up a hell of a lot and dare I say it is exactly the type of player and person we are looking for.

Having a look at the key position players this year makes me want to keep our powder dry on the trading/free agency front, there isn't a lot of genuine talent around and the scarcity is inflating prices tremendously. I mean in what market does James Frawley, a solid full back, attract 700k? If we are going after one I would prefer we tried to work something for the second string GWS talls that will come without breaking the bank or draft position and just want some game time.

The three guys I'd really love we have a crack at are Levi Casboult, Jenkins from Adelaide or McGovern at West Coast. Casboult is a Malthouse project and is just about their only likely forward so won't be going anywhere, Jenkins has proved the Tippet replacement Adelaide and they don't seem to have much coming through below him so I can't see them being willing to talk but McGovern may still be stuck behind a few at the Eagles so despite being a father son perhaps could be persuaded east?

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

Has the form of Chris Dawes this year changed anyone's thoughts about failing to get him across last year? I was against the move but he would straighten us up a hell of a lot and dare I say it is exactly the type of player and person we are looking for.

Having a look at the key position players this year makes me want to keep our powder dry on the trading/free agency front, there isn't a lot of genuine talent around and the scarcity is inflating prices tremendously. I mean in what market does James Frawley, a solid full back, attract 700k? If we are going after one I would prefer we tried to work something for the second string GWS talls that will come without breaking the bank or draft position and just want some game time.

The three guys I'd really love we have a crack at are Levi Casboult, Jenkins from Adelaide or McGovern at West Coast. Casboult is a Malthouse project and is just about their only likely forward so won't be going anywhere, Jenkins has proved the Tippet replacement Adelaide and they don't seem to have much coming through below him so I can't see them being willing to talk but McGovern may still be stuck behind a few at the Eagles so despite being a father son perhaps could be persuaded east?

I might be wrong but I thought his father played with Freo. I like the way he plays.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

Dad was a stocky half back mid type that played in Sydney also.

[1eyedog]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

Really odd that we are considering paying 700K for a mediocre player like Frawley yet looking at letting go of Grant for next to nothing.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

Really odd that we are considering paying 700K for a mediocre player like Frawley yet looking at letting go of Grant for next to nothing.

Perhaps those who think Frawley is worthwhile at $700K are not the same people who see Grant as expendable. They are of course very different players.

Frawley would not be on my radar at that price. I would see his value as on a par with Crameri. However, he would provide something we need in a key back and certainly bring more to the team than Mark Austin can. He would in fact be a replacement for what we had expected from Williams.

Grant, while showing a few tricks, has competition for a spot. If we can get 2 of Jones/Campbell/Cordy (or Redpath) into the side and contributing, Crameri/Stringer become the 3rd tall forward to complement the smalls. With Dahlhaus, Hrovat, Dickson, Honeychurch and Hunter we have an abundance of smalls with potential.

This does not even consider the contribution we can anticipate from Bontempelli and the mids.

We do need to bring in players that add the extras and the expendables will surely be from those competing for places where we have depth.

[Mofra]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

Really odd that we are considering paying 700K for a mediocre player like Frawley yet looking at letting go of Grant for next to nothing.

Are we?

I thought B-mac has all but ruled out big Free Agency plays this year.

[wimberga]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

If we are talking about throwing $700k at Frawley for quite a few years, I'd prefer we just made a monster offer to the young GWS talls. $4.2m over 5 years to Jon Patton/Boyd/Cameron.

[Greystache]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

Really odd that we are considering paying 700K for a mediocre player like Frawley yet looking at letting go of Grant for next to nothing.

Really odd we are comparing the two players like they're in some way similar. One is a key position player, former All Australian, key member of his team, and has played 134 games. The other is a midsized half forward, regular reserves player, has played 60 games, and who's best season was 4 years ago and has shown little to no improvement since.

The only comparison I can find is they're both 25 and play football. I know supporters have a tendency to overate their own, but to compare the two is a bit obsurd, especially to call the far more accomplished player mediocre.

[ledge]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

People need to realise Frawley has been playing in a horrid team with no development and no teamwork and he still has performed , even at fullback where he has watched the ball sail over his head so many times.
Imagine his improvement in a good side where team work is at it's best and he can escape the full back position and actually show his class..
Personally I think he can be a great player in a good side.
But whether we have him in our sights or money is too much etc , I will back the recruiters they know our salary cap position , none of us do.

[Bornadog]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

Are we?

I thought B-mac has all but ruled out big Free Agency plays this year.

Where did you hear that from? He certainly said he would look at free agency earlier this year at a function?

[1eyedog]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

Are we?

I thought B-mac has all but ruled out big Free Agency plays this year.

We seem to be on this board.

If we are talking about throwing $700k at Frawley for quite a few years, I'd prefer we just made a monster offer to the young GWS talls. $4.2m over 5 years to Jon Patton/Boyd/Cameron.

This is where I would be throwing 700k+

Really odd we are comparing the two players like they're in some way similar. One is a key position player, former All Australian, key member of his team, and has played 134 games. The other is a midsized half forward, regular reserves player, has played 60 games, and who's best season was 4 years ago and has shown little to no improvement since.

The only comparison I can find is they're both 25 and play football. I know supporters have a tendency to overate their own, but to compare the two is a bit obsurd, especially to call the far more accomplished player mediocre.

I never compared them where did I say that? The only comparison I made was by implication i.e. what they may / do / will bring to the team. We have a crumby forward line and when Grant came into it last year it for the first time in long time looked lively so he has the ability to do it. Ability as you know is not Grant's weak point - he clearly has a number of other weak points that the MC want worked on. We need a Grant to live up to his potential just as much as we need a Frawley-type playing to his potential. When comparing the potential value / output of both players into the future to suggest that we should bring Frawley into the club for 700k for 7 years yet delist Grant I find strange. Strange because I think Grant / Frawley have equal value to us potentially regardless of their trajectories so far and regardless of the type of players they are. I agree with Bob Murphy when he said Jarrad Grant's best is the best I've played on. Jarrad's Grant's best is right up there in terms of talent I've seen in a Bulldogs player. I guess the point of difference is that I am a Grant believer (like many here were 8 months ago) and I still think he can be a consistently lethal forward for us in the future.

[Greystache]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

I never compared them where did I say that? The only comparison I made was by implication i.e. what they may / do / will bring to the team. We have a crumby forward line and when Grant came into it last year it for the first time in long time looked lively so he has the ability to do it. Ability as you know is not Grant's weak point - he clearly has a number of other weak points that the MC want worked on. We need a Grant to live up to his potential just as much as we need a Frawley-type playing to his potential. When comparing the potential value / output of both players into the future to suggest that we should bring Frawley into the club for 700k for 7 years yet delist Grant I find strange. Strange because I think Grant / Frawley have equal value to us potentially regardless of their trajectories so far and regardless of the type of players they are. I agree with Bob Murphy when he said Jarrad Grant's best is the best I've played on. Jarrad's Grant's best is right up there in terms of talent I've seen in a Bulldogs player. I guess the point of difference is that I am a Grant believer (like many here were 8 months ago) and I still think he can be a consistently lethal forward for us in the future.

Fair enough. I find the never ending faith some have in Grant difficult to understand. He has some talent (mixed with some massive deficiencies that he appears unlikely to overcome), but is a player who's failed to deliver anything consistently during the 7 years he's been with us. Maybe he'll turn it all around some day and become the player many hope for, but personally I think he'll be that player who's 28 and has played 70 odd games and everyone says "how the hell did that guy manage to stay on a list all these years".

As a comparison, he plays a similar game to Luke Breust. Breust has 45 goals so far this season, that's more than Grant has in the past 4 years combined.

Frawley is a known quantity that you can build a side around. For $700K I'd suggest we could do better, for $500K I think he'd fill a crucial piece of the puzzle and would allow us to focus on other areas of need. 5 years would also be the limit as well. I don't see Grant ever being able to play as important a role, whether he comes good eventually or not.

[1eyedog]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

Fair enough. I find the never ending faith some have in Grant difficult to understand. He has some talent (mixed with some massive deficiencies that he appears unlikely to overcome), but is a player who's failed to deliver anything consistently during the 7 years he's been with us. Maybe he'll turn it all around some day and become the player many hope for, but personally I think he'll be that player who's 28 and has played 70 odd games and everyone says "how the hell did that guy manage to stay on a list all these years".

As a comparison, he plays a similar game to Luke Breust. Breust has 45 goals so far this season, that's more than Grant has in the past 4 years combined.

Frawley is a known quantity that you can build a side around. For $700K I'd suggest we could do better, for $500K I think he'd fill a crucial piece of the puzzle and would allow us to focus on other areas of need. 5 years would also be the limit as well. I don't see Grant ever being able to play as important a role, whether he comes good eventually or not.

Yeah totally understand that side of the story re. Grant. If we could get Frawley for 500k it's a goer - if he wants out that is and then there is the will he come to us if he has similar offers aspect. At 500k I'm sure he will have a number of counter offers but I think we are at least well placed to sell that we will be playing finals in 2 years which is more than Melbourne can offer.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

I'd like us to spend $700k over the next 6-18 months in propaganda messages, fine dining etc to the outcast/ Victorians on the GWS list, then hopefully roll the 700k per season into at least two of them, say O'Rourke, Plowman, Jaksch.

[Webby]

Re: Is it time to make a big move?

I'd like us to spend $700k over the next 6-18 months in propaganda messages, fine dining etc to the outcast/ Victorians on the GWS list, then hopefully roll the 700k per season into at least two of them, say O'Rourke, Plowman, Jaksch.

I like that kind of creative thinking. Well done.