ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

[Sedat]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/negligence-that-beggars-belief-20160112-gm4b34.html

Nice comment piece in The Age this morning.

[Bornadog]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the...12-gm4b34.html

Nice comment piece in The Age this morning.

Really sums up the whole situation perfectly.

[Twodogs]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

What will future generations make of this? They will ask how a club could be so fundamentally negligent when it came to the one thing that mattered above all else: the health and welfare of the players in its charge. That should have been sacrosanct, not doing "whatever it takes" to win trophies. It should always have been the players, the cohort of young, impressionable men who are required, by their club and by the discipline of sport, to treat their bodies as both temples and weapons of competition.

They will say "you got a conviction with that standard of evidence? Thank christ we stood up to those bastards from WADA before they destroyed sport completely"

[whythelongface]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Quick comment from me - right result, horrible process, feel for the players and think that they have been punished for the misdeeds of others, but there is a need to take responsibility. My wish from all of this is that the AFL man up. Admit that there were failings with the way it handled the initial investigation and its decision to resolve this in haste; admit also that what Essendon did has been proven to be wrong. Move forward embracing the finding as an opportunity....fat chance of that happening though

Agree with your sentiments Fredi and feel sorry for the players, however as you say they are responsible for their own actions and failing to disclose the injections on doping control forms was negligent. They were probably told not to do this but surely this should have raised alarm bells within the playing group. This whole saga has been unbelievable and those media representatives that have defended Essendon and Dank to the hilt need to take their heads from out of the sand and realise that the actions of the club and its representatives are paramount to bringing the game into disrepute.

[whythelongface]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

As for James Hird one can only speculate re the nature of the parallel universe he occupies. Is he unhinged? Only last month he was banging on about redemption "when all the facts are known" and now it's "a miscarriage of justice". Well, sorry to say James the players failed to report the injections on their doping control forms - they were party to a conspiracy. And who led them down that path? The club hierarchy of which you, James, were an integral part.

Has there ever been a bigger fall from grace (in AFL and Australian sport) than this fellow. He is damaged goods and will forever be remembered as being the Head Coach during the period of the injecting regime. He should no longer be associated with the game.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Did anyone watch the footy programs last night?

360 was a train wreck with Robbo looking more inept than ever. Gill Mclachlan came out of it looking ultra professional but it looked like he was being interviewed by a homeless guy. Cringeworthy.

I couldn't believe his incoherence. How does he hold down a job?

[Bornadog]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

I couldn't believe his incoherence. How does he hold down a job?

It is like he is permanently pissed.

[Greystache]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

I couldn't believe his incoherence. How does he hold down a job?

He was reading a list of questions from James Hird. What he didn't realise is Hird has every one of his followers ask the same questions whenever they have McLachlan on a program, as if it's a smoking gun. So McLachlan had ready to go answers, and because Slobbo doesn't know what he was he's talking about he wasn't able to counter any of it. The end result was him looking like the fool he is.

David King asked a good question to Slobbo- Do you think you backed the wrong horse?

Slobbo battled to put together a coherent sentence and ended up babbling that the Herald-Sun all got together and decided they would support Essendon and Hird in all of this. Astonishing that a newspaper would decide to take a side rather than report the story, but seeing the rubbish they've put up over the past 3 years it's hardly a surprise.

[Bornadog]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Astonishing that a newspaper would decide to take a side rather than report the story, but seeing the rubbish they've put up over the past 3 years it's hardly a surprise.

= Newscorp.

[Greystache]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

= Newscorp.

Fairfax is no better. The modern media run campaigns rather than report news, and then wonder why their medium is dying.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Robbo is best taken as a comedic performance artist. His utterances on 360 are written up word for word as works of humour - they work a treat on this level. He has online followings dedicated to his utter incompetence.

His career is a real anomaly. Some love him because he is some kind of throwback to a simpler time.

[Sedat]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

They will say "you got a conviction with that standard of evidence? Thank christ we stood up to those bastards from WADA before they destroyed sport completely"

Twodogs, I'm trying to understand your rationale for being so anti-WADA. Without their existence, we would have drug cheats of the calibre of Tim Montgomery, Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, etc.. all still feted for winning medals/events under completely false pretences, not to mention continuing to massively profit financially from these ill-gotten successes - none of these guys tested positive for PED's and were all caught by WADA using similar methods and burdens of proof that caught the Essendon 34. We would also have clean athletes of the likes of Cadel Evans lucky to finish in the top 5 of Le Tour in 2011 instead of rightfully winning it.

WADA is not the enemy in this story - the unscrupulous managers/coaches/sports science personnel, and the equally unscrupulous sportspeople are the true enemy here. Australians love to sit in our ivory towers and mock the Chinese swimmers, the East German athletes, the Tour cyclists, etc.. for being flagrant drug cheats - we have witnessed a systematic doping regime going on in our own backyard in our own sport, and all of a sudden it is the fault of the testers? This double-standard makes my skin crawl.

I am vehemently anti-PED's in sport, and the reality is that Essendon was using PED's in 2012 and were gaining an unfair advantage over the rest of the competition as a result. TB-4 was the tip of the iceberg in the case of Essendon, and only the alleged tip-off from City Hall allowed the Windy Hill shredders to get into overdrive and destroy evidence of all other PED use. The evidence tabled dispassionately and clinically by CAS yesterday was compelling - the players were partial architects in their own downfall and acted deceitfully in concealing their drug use from ASADA testers and also their own club doctor.

The discussion on Watson's Brownlow shouldn't even be a discussion - he was a plodder pre 2011, then suddenly a superstar midfielder in 2012-13, and then a plodder again in 2014-15. It is patently obvious that he gained an unfair advantage from the doping regime, and he has been rewarded very handsomely on and off the field for being a Brownlow winner - meanwhile the likes of Chris Grant and Corey McKernan can only look back on the millions they have lost in sponsorship revenue from not being recognised as past Brownlow winners.

Essendon and their insipid leadership personnel have ruined and hijacked our game from us - they (the senior players included, but less so than the likes of Dank, Robinson, Hird, Little, etc..) deserve our eternal scorn and insults for the damage they have done to the game. Likewise the AFL deserve every bit as much scorn and ridicule for being so willing to trade away the integrity of the competition with their wet lettuce treatment of major issues such as this, tanking, gambling, salary cap cheating, Talia's mobile phone habits, etc...

This isn't a court of law, where the level of reasonable doubt has to be above and beyond. I for one am more than comfortably satisfied that the evidence outlined yesterday was more than enough to convict the 34 players of being drug cheats and gaining an unfair advantage of the rest of the competition. There are adequate checks and balances in the global CAS/WADA system to ensure that innocent athletes have their say - Essendon had theirs every step of the way (they added in a couple of extra steps by way of Federal Court) and were manifestly incapable of proving they did not take PEDs.

I respect your take on this but I am almost in 100% disagreement.

[Twodogs]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

He was reading a list of questions from James Hird. What he didn't realise is Hird has every one of his followers ask the same questions whenever they have McLachlan on a program, as if it's a smoking gun. So McLachlan had ready to go answers, and because Slobbo doesn't know what he was he's talking about he wasn't able to counter any of it. The end result was him looking like the fool he is.

David King asked a good question to Slobbo- Do you think you backed the wrong horse?

Slobbo battled to put together a coherent sentence and ended up babbling that the Herald-Sun all got together and decided they would support Essendon and Hird in all of this. Astonishing that a newspaper would decide to take a side rather than report the story, but seeing the rubbish they've put up over the past 3 years it's hardly a surprise.

Fairfax is no better. The modern media run campaigns rather than report news, and then wonder why their medium is dying.

I'm not suprised. Kinda stunned, but not suprised.

Twodogs, I'm trying to understand your rationale for being so anti-WADA. Without their existence, we would have drug cheats of the calibre of Tim Montgomery, Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, etc.. all still feted for winning medals/events under completely false pretences, not to mention continuing to massively profit financially from these ill-gotten successes - none of these guys tested positive for PED's and were all caught by WADA using similar methods and burdens of proof that caught the Essendon 34. We would also have clean athletes of the likes of Cadel Evans lucky to finish in the top 5 of Le Tour in 2011 instead of rightfully winning it.

WADA is not the enemy in this story - the unscrupulous managers/coaches/sports science personnel, and the equally unscrupulous sportspeople are the true enemy here. Australians love to sit in our ivory towers and mock the Chinese swimmers, the East German athletes, the Tour cyclists, etc.. for being flagrant drug cheats - we have witnessed a systematic doping regime going on in our own backyard in our own sport, and all of a sudden it is the fault of the testers? This double-standard makes my skin crawl.

I am vehemently anti-PED's in sport, and the reality is that Essendon was using PED's in 2012 and were gaining an unfair advantage over the rest of the competition as a result. TB-4 was the tip of the iceberg in the case of Essendon, and only the alleged tip-off from City Hall allowed the Windy Hill shredders to get into overdrive and destroy evidence of all other PED use. The evidence tabled dispassionately and clinically by CAS yesterday was compelling - the players were partial architects in their own downfall and acted deceitfully in concealing their drug use from ASADA testers and also their own club doctor.

The discussion on Watson's Brownlow shouldn't even be a discussion - he was a plodder pre 2011, then suddenly a superstar midfielder in 2012-13, and then a plodder again in 2014-15. It is patently obvious that he gained an unfair advantage from the doping regime, and he has been rewarded very handsomely on and off the field for being a Brownlow winner - meanwhile the likes of Chris Grant and Corey McKernan can only look back on the millions they have lost in sponsorship revenue from not being recognised as past Brownlow winners.

Essendon and their insipid leadership personnel have ruined and hijacked our game from us - they (the players included, but less so than the likes of dank, Robinson, Hird, etc..) deserve our scorn and insults for the damage they have done to the game. Likewise the AFL deserve every bit as much scorn and ridicule for being so willing to trade away the integrity of the competition with their wet lettuce treatment of major issues such as this, tanking, gambling, salary cap cheating, Talia's mobile phone habits, etc...

This isn't a court of law, where the level of reasonable doubt has to be above and beyond. I for one am more than comfortably satisfied that the evidence outlined yesterday was more than enough to convict the 34 players of being drug cheats and gaining an unfair advantage of the rest of the competition. There are adequate checks and balances in the global CAS/WADA system to ensure that innocent athletes have their say - Essendon had theirs every step of the way (they added in a couple of extra steps by way of Federal Court) and were manifestly incapable of proving they did not take PEDs.

I respect your take on this but I am almost in 100% disagreement.

Maybe I am expecting too high a level of proof, but at the first go, it's a bloody low bar we are setting and it sets a nasty precedent for the next party to appear in front of WADA or CAS. We should make sure the judiciary is held to account and set a standard too.

The rest of what you say is true. I am almost 100% sure they are guilty and it rots to the core to defend their rights but they got the same rights we will be entitled to if anyone even pointed the finger at us.

[jeemak]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

I'm not suprised. Kinda stunned, but not suprised.




Maybe I am expecting too high a level of proof, but at the first go, it's a bloody low bar we are setting and it sets a nasty precedent for the next party to appear in front of WADA or CAS. We should make sure the judiciary is held to account and set a standard too.

The rest of what you say is true. I am almost 100% sure they are guilty and it rots to the core to defend their rights but they got the same rights we will be entitled to if anyone even pointed the finger at us.

Well I suppose that's a reasonable deterrent from behaving like EFC and its staffers did during that time, is it not?

WADA hasn't changed its processes for prosecuting these cases without telling anybody. If the finger is pointed at us, and there is the same level of evidence against us as exists in the EFC case then I'd hope we'd put in our guilty plea as early as possible and rid the club of the personalities who put us in such a precarious position.

The AFL is a signatory to the WADA Code on PED's, and was when the EFC decided to dope its players.

[always right]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Slobbo battled to put together a coherent sentence and ended up babbling that the Herald-Sun all got together and decided they would support Essendon and Hird in all of this. Astonishing that a newspaper would decide to take a side rather than report the story, but seeing the rubbish they've put up over the past 3 years it's hardly a surprise.

I don't think it's quite accurate to say the paper decided to support Essendon and Hird. To paraphrase Robbo, he stated that there were some concerns expressed about how the AFL were conducting matters and the Herald Sun decided to pursue that angle further.

I also think it's fair to say that Mick Warner was very critical of Essendon and Hird over this period so whilst Robbo may have taken a "standbyhird" approach, I'm not sure you could level the same allegation against the Herald Sun's journos in general.