ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

[jeemak]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

I really don't understand the comparisons between OJ and the EFC (irrespective of whether I think crimes were committed by the club, those acting on its behalf or otherwise). The latter scenario hasn't been prosecuted in a criminal court prior to getting to its current circumstance.

I appreciate how OJ was ruled against in a civil trial, of course, though as you've stated there was genuine and or concrete evidence that could stand up in court to do so on the balance of probabilities, essentially derived from the hard work done in the criminal trial he faced.

Hird and the EFC haven't faced a criminal prosecution, and with that haven't had the same level of prosecution of their perceived wrong doings.

If they are to be subject to a civil trial, whoever's bearing the burden of proof needs to find significant evidence of damage inflicted by them to the point where the balance of probability of wrong doing can be satisfied.

My view is it won't get to that. It would be way too hard and easier to settle out of court.

[jeemak]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Another thing, you can bet the AFL and the EFC have done sufficient risk analysis to test the civil case scenario and in all honesty they probably think they have a better than fighting chance of avoiding damage claims.

[ledge]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Impossible to avoid damage claims when you pleaded guilty to an unsafe work place and because of that players are banned for a year.
You admitted guilt.

[Twodogs]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Great article. Sets out Hirds position well:

http://www.theshovel.com.au/2016/01/15/james-hird-denies-ever-being-coach-at-essendon/

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Nathan Lovett-Murray has acknowledged overnight that he knowingly took Thymosin. His only defence is that he mistakenly thought Bruce Reid had approved it. The claims of innocence by some involved are looking more ridiculous by the day.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Nathan Lovett-Murray has acknowledged overnight that he knowingly took Thymosin. His only defence is that he mistakenly thought Bruce Reid had approved it. The claims of innocence by some involved are looking more ridiculous by the day.

Normal Thymosin or TB4?

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Normal Thymosin or TB4?

The article only states Thymosin. From what I can gather this distinction was a discussed issue at CAS. A number of texts between players, Hird, Dank, etc referred to Thymosin, which CAS concluded must have been TB4 as other forms of Thymosin would not have been realistically applicable to the context of the texts (ie not useful in a sports science programme).

[boydogs]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

The article only states Thymosin. From what I can gather this distinction was a discussed issue at CAS. A number of texts between players, Hird, Dank, etc referred to Thymosin, which CAS concluded must have been TB4 as other forms of Thymosin would not have been realistically applicable to the context of the texts (ie not useful in a sports science programme).

WADA managed to obtain a positive TB4 urine test

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

WADA managed to obtain a positive TB4 urine test

From what I understand, 2 players had elevated TB4 levels in their urine which was another plank of the evidence but not, in itself, conclusive as such readings can occur through other sources.

[AndrewP6]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Nathan Lovett-Murray has acknowledged overnight that he knowingly took Thymosin. His only defence is that he mistakenly thought Bruce Reid had approved it. The claims of innocence by some involved are looking more ridiculous by the day.

The CAS ruling states that a number of players testified to being told that's what they were receiving. Also that Crameri testified to seeing vials of it in the fridge when he was being injected. Circumstantial, but damningly so.

[Flamethrower]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Thymosins are short proteins (peptides) that are produced naturally by the human body. Two forms are commonly used in medicine, Thymosin alpha 1 and Thymosin beta 4.

TA1 is used to boost immunity and TB4 is used to aid tissue repair in humans. TB4 also promotes the growth of tissue and muscle, which is why it is banned by WADA. It has no significant side effects.

Raised levels of TB4 are commonly found in serum and urine after strenuous exercise, so a positive test does not indicate illegal use. There is no laboratory test currently that differentiates between naturally occurring and synthetic TB4.

[AndrewP6]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

The article only states Thymosin. From what I can gather this distinction was a discussed issue at CAS. A number of texts between players, Hird, Dank, etc referred to Thymosin, which CAS concluded must have been TB4 as other forms of Thymosin would not have been realistically applicable to the context of the texts (ie not useful in a sports science programme).

That's right, that was in the ruling.

[Flamethrower]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

The CAS ruling states that a number of players testified to being told that's what they were receiving. Also that Crameri testified to seeing vials of it in the fridge when he was being injected. Circumstantial, but damningly so.

Interesting though, commercially available vials of Thymosin beta 4 are NOT labelled Thymosin. They are labelled TB-4 or TB-500. It is Thymosin alpha 1 that is labelled Thymosin A1.

[AndrewP6]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Interesting though, commercially available vials of Thymosin beta 4 are NOT labelled Thymosin. They are labelled TB-4 or TB-500. It is Thymosin alpha 1 that is labelled Thymosin A1.

Lends weight to the idea it wasn't a legitimate operation.

[Twodogs]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Lends weight to the idea it wasn't a legitimate operation.

Or that it was Thymosin alpha 1 that Crameri saw in the fridge.