Pound for pound mvp

[Bulldog Joe]

100% agree. Has to do A LOT more to convince me that he is better than Dolan L Kennedy and Hynes. He had his time to come on to be an AFL player but hasnt cut it. So we should give more time to the new recruits instead. VDM is in the same boat as McNeil, had his chances but not doing enough. The other thing about VDM is that is has failed to finish about 10 games in the last 12 months. He is not doing enough to be an automatic selection against others who are missing out.

I like what Dolan showed, but Hynes was way below the output of McNeill in the games he played.

While we can project that those 2 plus L Kennedy should end up ahead of McNeill, at present we need to pick to win and the young guys just aren't running out games.

For now McNeill and Vandermeer bring more to the side.

[Rusty12]

1/ I'm challenged by this bit. Lachie has consistently been in our best 20-25 over the past 2-3 years... if he's one of our lowest paid players his manager needs a kick up the ass.

2/ I'm also challenged by the suggestion that how & when a player gathers his disposals doesn't affect his ranking. Surely being a consistent contributor throughout would mean a higher ranking, rather than fattening up his stat sheet when the game is pretty much over.

Sorry Mantis, you are a bit off the boil here.

As I said, I don't disagree with questioning a 9 for McNeil, but it is what it is.
McNeil was a rookie draft (Min Wage), struggling to get a game, and 25-35 on the list, delisted, and re-rookieed on what would have been near min wage.
To his credit, he has carved out a career, and is now one of the best 20-30 players on the list, although still entirely replaceable.
AFL teams structure a top-heavy use of the hard cap, he will be in the bottom 33% of cap hit.

The how and when ranking points are accumulated are counterproductive to your argument. If there were bonuses for actions that occur in "clutch" moments, or when the game is in the balance and in this case, despite you keep saying the game was over, McNeil had some nice moments during the comeback, of the game they almost won.
Did you switch the TV off 5mins into the 4th Quarter? The dogs almost won the game........... There was no junk time.

[jazzadogs]

Sorry Mantis, you are a bit off the boil here.

As I said, I don't disagree with questioning a 9 for McNeil, but it is what it is.
McNeil was a rookie draft (Min Wage), struggling to get a game, and 25-35 on the list, delisted, and re-rookieed on what would have been near min wage.
To his credit, he has carved out a career, and is now one of the best 20-30 players on the list, although still entirely replaceable.
AFL teams structure a top-heavy use of the hard cap, he will be in the bottom 33% of cap hit.

The how and when ranking points are accumulated are counterproductive to your argument. If there were bonuses for actions that occur in "clutch" moments, or when the game is in the balance and in this case, despite you keep saying the game was over, McNeil had some nice moments during the comeback, of the game they almost won.
Did you switch the TV off 5mins into the 4th Quarter? The dogs almost won the game........... There was no junk time.

I think this is important, and I had previously misinterpreted it...you're not saying he's in the bottom third (i.e. 30-45) of players paid on the list, but that the top third of our cap might only contain 6 or 7 players on bigger individual salaries, and the bottom third might contain 20 players on small salaries. So he could be 23rd highest paid, but in the bottom third of our overall cap spend.

Re: how and when, if that is the priority for someone's rankings then go to supercoach points. They supposedly factor in impact on the game, eg Leo Barry mark was awarded 30 points or something.

Ive definitely been surprised by some of Rusty's ranks, but I appreciate the explanations and logic behind it all. The overall rankings stack up as reflective of our best players so far this year.

[Rusty12]

I think this is important, and I had previously misinterpreted it...you're not saying he's in the bottom third (i.e. 30-45) of players paid on the list, but that the top third of our cap might only contain 6 or 7 players on bigger individual salaries, and the bottom third might contain 20 players on small salaries. So he could be 23rd highest paid, but in the bottom third of our overall cap spend.

Re: how and when, if that is the priority for someone's rankings then go to supercoach points. They supposedly factor in impact on the game, eg Leo Barry mark was awarded 30 points or something.

Ive definitely been surprised by some of Rusty's ranks, but I appreciate the explanations and logic behind it all. The overall rankings stack up as reflective of our best players so far this year.

Yep, that's right.
My bad if I had not explained that correctly.
And yes, there are bonus points for impactful moments, which in McNeil's case, it has probably helped.
I disagree with some of ratings to, but the purpose was for it to be unbiased.
Even the coaches' award is biased, Daicos gets votes from McRae when he is not in the best 15 players on the park.

[hujsh]

Yep, that's right.
My bad if I had not explained that correctly.
And yes, there are bonus points for impactful moments, which in McNeil's case, it has probably helped.
I disagree with some of ratings to, but the purpose was for it to be unbiased.
Even the coaches' award is biased, Daicos gets votes from McRae when he is not in the best 15 players on the park.

Can you expand on that more?

[Rusty12]

Welcome Back to the Top Legend.
Dale makes his move.
Difficult for the defenders to score any higher; they just weren't in enough meaningful contests.
Naughton, the only passenger, who wasn't subbed, or sub.
Bad day for Bramnle, plenty of game time to make a stake for next week.

image.png

[Bulldog Joe]

Thanks Rusty.
I was looking forward to your post.
Only 5 of the 23 not scoring 6 or more highlights the depth of the performance.

Actually thought Naughton might have scored better this week as his effort was there and he did give a couple of good assists.

[SquirrelGrip]

Welcome Back to the Top Legend.
Dale makes his move.
Difficult for the defenders to score any higher; they just weren't in enough meaningful contests.
Naughton, the only passenger, who wasn't subbed, or sub.
Bad day for Bramnle, plenty of game time to make a stake for next week.

image.png

OK, I saw it in your WOOF votes, and now 10 here. Talk me through how Harmes was your best on and got 10 points in your Pound 4 Pound. I just didn't see it myself.

[Bulldog Joe]

OK, I saw it in your WOOF votes, and now 10 here. Talk me through how Harmes was your best on and got 10 points in your Pound 4 Pound. I just didn't see it myself.

Not to answer for Rusty, but I thought Harmes was terrific.

Did more work in the back half than I have ever seen from him.

[Rusty12]

OK, I saw it in your WOOF votes, and now 10 here. Talk me through how Harmes was your best on and got 10 points in your Pound 4 Pound. I just didn't see it myself.

Okay, to be fair, I could have given half the team votes in the Woof awards, so I chose to throw some bait in the water, and ensure a few blokes got credit, as the midfield and Dale would otherwise get them all.

He was the 4th highest rated (raw) player on the ground, so it was a big, big rating once adjusted for mostly outside mid-time.
If you get a chance, watch a replay. He was isolated in so many 1v1 contests, where he came away with clean ball after clean ball. Not flashy, just keeping his feet, and getting on with it.
Pushed deep into both 50 arcs, and made an impact at both ends.
7 Post clearance ground balls is big, and is a key indicator to winning. Also linked to 9 post clearance contested wins, as mentioned above.
Libba had 9, ground ball gets, playing inside mid to lead the game.
7 Intercepts, leading the backline in that stat, the only person with more was playing on an uncompetitive Aaron Naughton.

[jazzadogs]

Welcome Back to the Top Legend.
Dale makes his move.
Difficult for the defenders to score any higher; they just weren't in enough meaningful contests.
Naughton, the only passenger, who wasn't subbed, or sub.
Bad day for Bramnle, plenty of game time to make a stake for next week.

image.png

It's pretty stark reading for Naughton's season... Only three performances better than 3/10.

[jeemak]

Naughton's first quarter could have been off the charts good, but he's lacking as Bevo would have said a few years ago "qualitative sheen". And that's been the issue most of the year, I've not seen a player flat hand so many marking attempts as I've seen him to this point of the season (and that's even having 11 score involvements this week).

Good news is, there's upside. He's getting involved, and working his arse off. The lack of touch coming into the season is biting him, but if he works on his touch over the break I reckon he can come good. Now he's played every week the fitness side should be covered, he just needs a couple of weeks worth of intense touch/ skills work put into him.

[Rusty12]

Naughton's first quarter could have been off the charts good, but he's lacking as Bevo would have said a few years ago "qualitative sheen". And that's been the issue most of the year, I've not seen a player flat hand so many marking attempts as I've seen him to this point of the season (and that's even having 11 score involvements this week).

Good news is, there's upside. He's getting involved, and working his arse off. The lack of touch coming into the season is biting him, but if he works on his touch over the break I reckon he can come good. Now he's played every week the fitness side should be covered, he just needs a couple of weeks worth of intense touch/ skills work put into him.

Agree. I have not lost faith either.

[SquirrelGrip]

Okay, to be fair, I could have given half the team votes in the Woof awards, so I chose to throw some bait in the water, and ensure a few blokes got credit, as the midfield and Dale would otherwise get them all.

He was the 4th highest rated (raw) player on the ground, so it was a big, big rating once adjusted for mostly outside mid-time.
If you get a chance, watch a replay. He was isolated in so many 1v1 contests, where he came away with clean ball after clean ball. Not flashy, just keeping his feet, and getting on with it.
Pushed deep into both 50 arcs, and made an impact at both ends.
7 Post clearance ground balls is big, and is a key indicator to winning. Also linked to 9 post clearance contested wins, as mentioned above.
Libba had 9, ground ball gets, playing inside mid to lead the game.
7 Intercepts, leading the backline in that stat, the only person with more was playing on an uncompetitive Aaron Naughton.

Thanks, Rusty. I appreciate the detail. I haven't had the chance to watch a replay, but it's always interesting how much you can miss when watching a game.

[Rusty12]

Thanks Rusty, I appreciate the detail. I hasven't had the chance to watch a replay, but always interesting how much you can miss when watching a game.

All good mate, good one to go into detail