Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Where did I comment on his game yesterday? It's an assessment over the last 2 monthes.
Anyway he struggles to mark in most conditions. Also the conditions didn't seem to worry Jones' marking.

He's getting better. Understand many fans want instant results. But this is the real world.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

He's getting better. Understand many fans want instant results. But this is the real world.

The real world is Skinner is not even VFL standard.

If it wasn't for Mulligan, Skinner would be the worst player on our list.

[chef]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

The real world is Skinner is not even VFL standard.

If it wasn't for Mulligan, Skinner would be the worst player on our list.

Agree with this, he looks miles off VFL standard let alone AFL standard. I find it odd that he's gotten so many chances so far at Bulldog level when probably more deserving guys don't.

[chef]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

He's getting better. Understand many fans want instant results. But this is the real world.

The real world is he has two years to show he deserves a spot on the list or he's gone. Considering this is his second he would want to start showing a bit more than he has.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Agree with this, he looks miles off VFL standard let alone AFL standard. I find it odd that he's gotten so many chances so far at Bulldog level when probably more deserving guys don't.

Well seems like a whole lot of people disagree with you. Western Bulldogs selectors, Williamstown selectors. Just disagree that he is not VFL standard. A bit harsh don't you think? You feel like the selectors at the Seagulls, Peter German and others are completely clueless? Has a great step of pace, learning and improving. Has a good second effort. Working on his basics. Learning to put his head over the ball. Might not get a permanent spot in the AFL but is certainly giving it his all. Well done Zephania.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

The real world is Skinner is not even VFL standard.

If it wasn't for Mulligan, Skinner would be the worst player on our list.

Well Skinner is in the VFL in the real world.

[chef]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Well seems like a whole lot of people disagree with you. Western Bulldogs selectors, Williamstown selectors. Just disagree that he is not VFL standard. A bit harsh don't you think? You feel like the selectors at the Seagulls, Peter German and others are completely clueless? Has a great step of pace, learning and improving. Has a good second effort. Working on his basics. Learning to put his head over the ball. Might not get a permanent spot in the AFL but is certainly giving it his all. He didn't select himself did he? All we can ask. Well done Zephania.

Not clueless, they are just picking him on potential which unfortunately he's not fulfilling IMO. His main problem is he has one of the worst first touches I can remember of a dogs player which leads him into having to put on so many second and third efforts. Sorry GD I'm not a fan.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Not clueless, they are just picking him on potential which unfortunately he's not fulfilling IMO. His main problem is he has one of the worst first touches I can remember of a dogs player which leads him into having to put on so many second and third efforts. Sorry GD I'm not a fan.

Fair enough. Agree to disagree. Too early to tell IMO
By the way, manage to catch the game V Box Hill?

[GVGjr]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Well seems like a whole lot of people disagree with you. Western Bulldogs selectors, Williamstown selectors. Just disagree that he is not VFL standard. A bit harsh don't you think? You feel like the selectors at the Seagulls, Peter German and others are completely clueless? Has a great step of pace, learning and improving. Has a good second effort. Working on his basics. Learning to put his head over the ball. Might not get a permanent spot in the AFL but is certainly giving it his all. Well done Zephania.

Skinner is certainly being played more so on potential than achievements so far. German and co play him because it's seen in the best interests of the club and I think if it was just pure form he might have had a couple of games in the reserves. Good luck to him but on what I have seen he is still coming from a fair way back. I like his athleticism but he is very much a work in progress.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Skinner is certainly being played more so on potential than achievements so far. German and co play him because it's seen in the best interests of the club and I think if it was just pure form he might have had a couple of games in the reserves. Good luck to him but on what I have seen he is still coming from a fair way back. I like his athleticism but he is very much a work in progress.

Couldn't we say Jong is in a similar situation? Besides, the last two games at Willy have been very wet; not suited.
Yes, very much a work in progress. As is Jong.

[GVGjr]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

And wouldn't you not say Jong is in a similar situation? Perhaps I'm biased as I got to see Skinner up close in Ballarat and a few other times. Yes, very much a work in progress. As is Jong.

Jong is in the same position and I see a lot of upside in him. Skinner unfortunately suffers from being on the senior list so our supporters are less patient with him. He's also played some some senior games that also lifts expectations. Jong and Johannisen for that matter don't have the same weight of expectation on them.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Jong is in the same position and I see a lot of upside in him. Skinner unfortunately suffers from being on the senior list so our supporters are less patient with him. He's also played some some senior games that also lifts expectations. Jong and Johannisen for that matter don't have the same weight of expectation on them.

Ok. Got it. Good points.
But come off it - calls to have him dropped out of the VFL team? I doubt anyone at the Dogs or Williamstown agrees.
Like Cordy, Skinner is going to start taking those grabs, as he builds up arm strength, and consolidate the things he is being told. Does anyone think he's going backwards? Don't think so.
Zeph is a young man who is starting further back than a lot of others in terms of language, diet, access to gyms and sports facilities and other factors. Was working as a meat packer when he was drafted. His background demands patience. The club picked him for his X-factor and now have to be patient. It was always going to be a risk.
Still, I wonder if clubs wished they had taken the risk with Buddy Franklin?

Unfortunately, fans not only want a quick fix, they want risk free draft choices and simplistic or unrealistic arcs of development.

[azabob]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Wonder if clubs wished they had taken the risk with Buddy Franklin?

All of them! But he had to be handled just right, and Hawthorn handled him perfectly. Not sure other clubs could have.

[GVGjr]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Ok. Got it. Good points.
But come off it - calls to have him dropped out of the VFL team? I doubt anyone at the Dogs or Williamstown agrees.

I'm not making that call but come the end of the season I think we need to have a good look if we have the time and the resources to continue to develop him and if he can make that step.

Ok. Got it. Good points.
Like Cordy, Skinner is going to start taking those grabs, as he builds up arm strength, and consolidate the things he is being told. Does anyone think he's going backwards? Don't think so.
Zeph is a young man who is starting further back than a lot of others in terms of language, diet, access to gyms and sports facilities and other factors. Was working as a meat packer when he was drafted. His background demands patience. The club picked him for his X-factor and now have to be patient. It was always going to be a risk.
Still, I wonder if clubs wished they had taken the risk with Buddy Franklin?

Unfortunately, fans not only want a quick fix, they want risk free draft choices and simplistic or unrealistic arcs of development.

If the team was traveling better then people have heaps of patience so given our performance to date it's no surprise that a lot of the fringe players are under more scrutiny than the last few seasons. I acknowledge the points you have raised but we still have to ask the question if he is worth it. It's early days but I think it's a question that needs to be asked at the end of the season.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Ok. Got it. Good points.
But come off it - calls to have him dropped out of the VFL team? I doubt anyone at the Dogs or Williamstown agrees.
Like Cordy, Skinner is going to start taking those grabs, as he builds up arm strength, and consolidate the things he is being told. Does anyone think he's going backwards? Don't think so.
Zeph is a young man who is starting further back than a lot of others in terms of language, diet, access to gyms and sports facilities and other factors. Was working as a meat packer when he was drafted. His background demands patience. The club picked him for his X-factor and now have to be patient. It was always going to be a risk.
Still, I wonder if clubs wished they had taken the risk with Buddy Franklin?

Unfortunately, fans not only want a quick fix, they want risk free draft choices and simplistic or unrealistic arcs of development.

Not sure how you can compare Skinner with Franklin.
One went pick 5 while the other was a speculative pick at best.
Franklin was younger, played 20 games in the first year at afl level. Not sure if skinner has played 20 vfl games yet.