Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

[Missing Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Austin seems to be traveling quite well in the eyes of posters doesn't he? More so than Marko it seems. Fair enough. Although I think good key defenders are a bit harder to find than you think.

I agree that 'good' key defenders are hard to find. I guess my argument is Markovic is not and will not be a good key defender. He's a solid back up option, that's all. I have also always felt that Markovic should have never been on the main list to begin with. He should have been drafted as a rookie like Austin was. But hey, that's just my opinion.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

I agree that 'good' key defenders are hard to find. I guess my argument is Markovic is not and will not be a good key defender. He's a solid back up option, that's all. I have also always felt that Markovic should have never been on the main list to begin with. He should have been drafted as a rookie like Austin was. But hey, that's just my opinion.

I understand your view. Marko is a dour defender, and like Picken and others, will never be a 'star' but just grinds it out. Earlier this year, he played in games ( Eagles especially) where the back 50 was like a floodgate. It's pretty easy to dump the plodder label on a player in this position. If the coach is going to throw a player into the deep, so be it, but there are long term risks with that. Affecting their confidence is one.
So, I'd be happy to see him play until the end of the season against some other opposition set ups first before making a judgement.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Markovic isn't young. He's 26 years old.

I agree with bulldogsman; we would be able to find (younger) KD's equal or better to Markovic's ability. I think Austin is miles ahead of him, and Austin is more of a 'third' tall.

Age is not so much of an imperitive with backmen. Dustin fletcher, Brian Lake, Johncock, lots of good aging backmen doing well because you need that strength and the smarts.
Like others, think it's silly to comopare Marko with Austin. One is lanky, the other, an arm wrestler.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

People should not be comparing Austin with Markovic.

While Austin has done really well, he has definitely been out muscled by the big forwards.
I see Austin as more like Morris and Hargrave, but not really capable of relieving Lake.

Markovic has the strength to match the monster forwards. I see both worth a spot on the list.

They are different players, but Austin has still been given some pretty big jobs on key forwards and IMO handled himself really well. As I said, in the ideal world, he's a third tall -- Williams taking the second.

Besides being OK body on body, I don't think Markovic offers a lot -- especially against quality opponents.

Age is not so much of an imperitive with backmen. Dustin fletcher, Brian Lake, Johncock, lots of good aging backmen doing well because you need that strength and the smarts.
Like others, think it's silly to comopare Marko with Austin. One is lanky, the other, an arm wrestler.

Fletcher, Lake and Johncock are all elite players though and have been for a number of years.

As bulldogsman said, it pretty much comes down a matter of opinion at the moment, but I feel like we could do better than stick with Markovic.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Yeah, our list management needs to improve dramatically. So, to replenish our stocks, here is the end of season trade/delist list:

#1: Higgins. Trade week. Might be able to get a second round pick but even pick 50 will do. He is a dud.
#2: Gilbee. To the knackery. Should not have got a 2 year contract at the end of 2010. Bad mistake Eade. It’s probably why they sacked you.
#3: Gia. Pay out the contract, please. He’s cooked. He can go onto the long term injury list until then. Give someone a go who has the legs to at least chase an opponent.
#4: Cooney. Trade week. This is like Kelvin Templeton going to Melbourne. The club knew and he knew his knee was completely gone. But there were others who didn’t. He cut the rope to help his team. Cooney must do the same. We could get a high second round draft pick for him from someone like Gold Coast or GWS or whoever.
#5: Williams. Trade week. Injured too often. Completely unreliable as to availability. A draft pick around 30 for him would be very reasonable. Accept even pick 40.
#6: Morris. Trade week. Let’s face it, he’s never going to be the same if he gets back at all. See Cooney above. All we have to do is just get him doing a few laps of the oval at training and generate some press about how well his rehab is progressing. Someone will give us a third round draft pick on the value of the memories.
#7: Hooper. Can’t get a game after 3 years. Delist or better...cunning trade week plan. Get him to grow his hair into exactly the same style as Dahlhaus. Use extensions if necessary. Then carefully select and edit Dahlhaus footage and pass it off in the Hooper promotional pack.
#8: Mulligan. We’ve got too many ruck sized players and he moves like Robbie the Robot. Delist.
#9: Veszpremi. We recruited him as a small goal sneak. Now we’re telling him to run with the opposition’s small goal sneaks. No tank. No guts. Delist.
#10: Murphy. Retirement ("voluntary" if necessary). Sad but we don’t want a champ to have one season too many. Although playing well, the signs are there. This year should be his last to go out on a good note.
#11: Cross. Retirement ("voluntary"). Like Murphy. By the end of the season it will be obvious that the risk is too high for a dramatic falling away next year. Don’t take the chance on another Gia.
#12: Liam Jones. Trade week. His kicking for goal is so bad that he might as well not be on the ground. A second round draft pick will be fine but accept a third if that’s all there is on offer.
#13: Dickson. Seen enough. Will only ever play a few more games. Delist.

Ok. F'scary, you've been hammered a bit for this one and it seems you may have partaken of a hindquarter of a slab or 2 but..............

You know what? I think that this is a pretty good blueprint to work from.

I'd rather start with a list like this and then ease it back, than just 'get a trim round the edges but essentially ask the barber for a 'bowl cut'.
In other words "just leave it like it is and cut off the small bits that are obviously wrong".

I don't agree with all of these trades/delistings but I'd rather go hard than soft and I think Higgins is one I have to agree with.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

People should not be comparing Austin with Markovic.

While Austin has done really well, he has definitely been out muscled by the big forwards.
I see Austin as more like Morris and Hargrave, but not really capable of relieving Lake.

Markovic has the strength to match the monster forwards. I see both worth a spot on the list.

I spoke to Tommy at the game at Whitten Oval on the 20th , he said that if the defense is stable with Lake and Markovic as the two talls he would speak to the coaching staff about a move to CFH , sounds fine to me in principle

Now when Tommy comes off the LTIL Austin has to go back to Willi , next year I don,t have a problem with having the three of them on the list if Mulligan is traded or delisted

Austin is probably the most suited to a utility role on a tall or small , safe mark , good technique with spoils and taps and is clean off the ground , the last part is what separates him from Williams and Markovic

.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Yeah, our list management needs to improve dramatically. So, to replenish our stocks, here is the end of season trade/delist list:

#1: Higgins. Trade week. Might be able to get a second round pick but even pick 50 will do. He is a dud.
#2: Gilbee. To the knackery. Should not have got a 2 year contract at the end of 2010. Bad mistake Eade. It’s probably why they sacked you.
#3: Gia. Pay out the contract, please. He’s cooked. He can go onto the long term injury list until then. Give someone a go who has the legs to at least chase an opponent.
#4: Cooney. Trade week. This is like Kelvin Templeton going to Melbourne. The club knew and he knew his knee was completely gone. But there were others who didn’t. He cut the rope to help his team. Cooney must do the same. We could get a high second round draft pick for him from someone like Gold Coast or GWS or whoever.
#5: Williams. Trade week. Injured too often. Completely unreliable as to availability. A draft pick around 30 for him would be very reasonable. Accept even pick 40.
#6: Morris. Trade week. Let’s face it, he’s never going to be the same if he gets back at all. See Cooney above. All we have to do is just get him doing a few laps of the oval at training and generate some press about how well his rehab is progressing. Someone will give us a third round draft pick on the value of the memories.
#7: Hooper. Can’t get a game after 3 years. Delist or better...cunning trade week plan. Get him to grow his hair into exactly the same style as Dahlhaus. Use extensions if necessary. Then carefully select and edit Dahlhaus footage and pass it off in the Hooper promotional pack.
#8: Mulligan. We’ve got too many ruck sized players and he moves like Robbie the Robot. Delist.
#9: Veszpremi. We recruited him as a small goal sneak. Now we’re telling him to run with the opposition’s small goal sneaks. No tank. No guts. Delist.
#10: Murphy. Retirement ("voluntary" if necessary). Sad but we don’t want a champ to have one season too many. Although playing well, the signs are there. This year should be his last to go out on a good note.
#11: Cross. Retirement ("voluntary"). Like Murphy. By the end of the season it will be obvious that the risk is too high for a dramatic falling away next year. Don’t take the chance on another Gia.
#12: Liam Jones. Trade week. His kicking for goal is so bad that he might as well not be on the ground. A second round draft pick will be fine but accept a third if that’s all there is on offer.
#13: Dickson. Seen enough. Will only ever play a few more games. Delist.

Guess what can i say.

I agree with 1,2,7 & 11 we still need a few boys to take the field

happy to fish around for Higgo, Gilbee and Hooper will not get games this year and Cross I can see the younger guys taking his spot no problem next year.

That's it

[LostDoggy]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Ok. F'scary, you've been hammered a bit for this one and it seems you may have partaken of a hindquarter of a slab or 2 but..............

You know what? I think that this is a pretty good blueprint to work from.

I'd rather start with a list like this and then ease it back, than just 'get a trim round the edges but essentially ask the barber for a 'bowl cut'.
In other words "just leave it like it is and cut off the small bits that are obviously wrong".

I don't agree with all of these trades/delistings but I'd rather go hard than soft and I think Higgins is one I have to agree with.

If you wanted to take that approach, you'd start with every single player eligible to be cut or traded, on the cutting board, then work your way back.

Side note:

1000 posts! Hoorah!!

[LostDoggy]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

After seeing yesterday's Williamstown game.
I think there are few more in gun than others believe.
Apart from the obvious Moles, Hooper, Mulligan and Gilbee.
I think Skinner is miles away from afl standard. Painted as a saviour but struggles at vfl level.
Hill? Gone backwards after looking good earlier this season. Young but 2nd chance already. Should be a rookie really.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

After seeing yesterday's Williamstown game.
I think there are few more in gun than others believe.
Apart from the obvious Moles, Hooper, Mulligan and Gilbee.
I think Skinner is miles away from afl standard. Painted as a saviour but struggles at vfl level.
Hill? Gone backwards after looking good earlier this season. Young but 2nd chance already. Should be a rookie really.

Bollocks. Wet day for talls. Made some great marking attempts and just needs stronger hands. Not a fair assessment of his game.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

If you wanted to take that approach, you'd start with every single player eligible to be cut or traded, on the cutting board, then work your way back.

Side note:

1000 posts! Hoorah!!

Congrats BAS!

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

If you wanted to take that approach, you'd start with every single player eligible to be cut or traded, on the cutting board, then work your way back.

Side note:

1000 posts! Hoorah!!

that is correct

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

There are only probably 3 real specialist positions left in the game IMO. Key-defender, key-forward and 1st ruck. I think Markovic offers us at least a mature, game ready back up as a key-defender and that warrants a spot on a list of 40 IMO.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Who are our foundation players?

Boyd: Captain
Jones : Made a strong statement yesterday. Looked great
Brian: A very important player for us.
Libba and Mitch: Maturing well and fortunate to get these father son picks
Griffen
Picken - Would make a very good future captain IMO
Clay Smith
Cordy
Dahlhaus
J Roughead
Minson
Murphy
Cross ( one more year to go on Contract?
Morris ( I believe he will regain his confidence as he has the right attitude )
Markovic: solid physical presence down back


Players any opposition coach would want. I would add Adam but his salary is based on past form.
I'd happily have him in there ( think he is being underestimated by many ) if that can be reduced.

Question marks

Shaun, Dickson, Djekurra, Austin, Redpath, Campbell, Williams : the next few months will be very important for them.
I have optimism for Tory Dickson, Campbell, and a few others.

Gia: In his last season and has been a great servant of the club

Skinner: Work in progress. Like what I saw yesterday and starting to adapt. Put his head over the ball a few times nicely. Came very close to taking a few grabs that would have stuck on a dry day. If you are going to select players from very regional areas, you have to be patient; or don't pick them. He clearly loves his footy and gave it a real crack yesterday.

Trade options:

Vezpremi - has been a good experiment but Fletcher Roberts is taller
A player who may serve another club well and not mind a change as he has not been at the club for a while

Pearce: Just think he is a bit short? Lacks a bit of pace? not sure. Still, a good player and won't be disappointed if we keep him, but we need to trade someone.

Williams: Hate to say it, but not sure if his body is cut out for AFL. There has been talk of a forward line role, but as an alternative, he may find a role with another club due to his height.

Delist
Hooper - A good, solid VFL level player who has worked hard despite his limitations. He has had his window of opportunity
Mulligan - Same as above
Dylan - an important contributor for 2012 but may find it hard to keep his spot as we need to develop younger players. Not sure we would get anyone interested in him.
Lindsay - Has made a good contribution to the club. Was once noted for his kicking but as we saw yesterday, can't be said of his current form.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Bollocks. Wet day for talls. Made some great marking attempts and just needs stronger hands. Not a fair assessment of his game.

Where did I comment on his game yesterday? It's an assessment over the last 2 monthes.
Anyway he struggles to mark in most conditions. Also the conditions didn't seem to worry Jones' marking.