Second half fade outs

[SlimPickens]

Re: Second half fade outs

I only joined Woof a few weeks back and I'm surprised to see how many sad sacks there are on the forum. People seem to genuinely think that McCartney should be waiving some kind of magic wand and have a bunch of 18 year olds suddenly out-muscling 25 year olds. Do people honestly think Wallis, Liberatore, Smith, Cordy etc will not be far better players at 25 than they are today? Geez, Brad Johnson used to get knocked off the ball and struggled to run out games in his early career BECAUSE HE WAS A KID!... Point is, you turn 19 the year after you turn 18. You dont turn 25! in order to get a 25 year old champion (as Johnno became) you have to wait! McCartney does not have a magic fast forward button! Fair enough this has been a tough year, but we'll have 10-15 players who will almost certainly be better for this year's experience. They'll know exactly what they need to work on over the summer. Next year this forum will probably have a page discussing last quarter fade outs, rather than 2nd half ones... but eventually even the sad sacks might just lighten up when this group matures. Point is, it'll take a couple more years:

Hey enough of this logic and common sense stuff that'll get you nowhere around here

[Bornadog]

Re: Second half fade outs

I only joined Woof a few weeks back and I'm surprised to see how many sad sacks there are on the forum.

I am no sure what you expected, a bunch of posters jumping for joy and saying how everything is going so well? We are all very passionate about our team and wanting success and its looking like a long way off.

Most of those so called sad sacks are very worried about how the MC is going about developing this team, playing players that are really not up to it (eg DJ), playing three ruckman on the ground, all be it not in rucking roles (Cordy and Roughead), trying to make outside players inside as well (Tutt, Sherman), not being able to at least kick some goals?

We all understand we are in a rebuild, redevelopment, refresh stage, but we don't want to see our second halves of games as total capitulations as they have been, and not even with a bit of bulldog fight. I haven't seen anything like this since the days of Royce Hart.

Not wanting to sound like an old fart, but I have never seen my team in a grand final (over 50 years), let alone a premiership, so I think I am entitled to be a sad sack.

You can post what you want and I will respect your view, but please don't get upset if I or others post negative comments, because frankly until we start winning, or at least showing some fight, we will have an opinion on how we can improve and what we think the MC should be doing, after all this is a discussion forum.

A far as Macca goes, I will give him to mid next year to see if we have shown some improvement over 2012, as this year we have gone backwards compared to last.

[Webby]

Re: Second half fade outs

I am no sure what you expected, a bunch of posters jumping for joy and saying how everything is going so well? We are all very passionate about our team and wanting success and its looking like a long way off.

Most of those so called sad sacks are very worried about how the MC is going about developing this team, playing players that are really not up to it (eg DJ), playing three ruckman on the ground, all be it not in rucking roles (Cordy and Roughead), trying to make outside players inside as well (Tutt, Sherman), not being able to at least kick some goals?

We all understand we are in a rebuild, redevelopment, refresh stage, but we don't want to see our second halves of games as total capitulations as they have been, and not even with a bit of bulldog fight. I haven't seen anything like this since the days of Royce Hart.

Not wanting to sound like an old fart, but I have never seen my team in a grand final (over 50 years), let alone a premiership, so I think I am entitled to be a sad sack.

You can post what you want and I will respect your view, but please don't get upset if I or others post negative comments, because frankly until we start winning, or at least showing some fight, we will have an opinion on how we can improve and what we think the MC should be doing, after all this is a discussion forum.

A far as Macca goes, I will give him to mid next year to see if we have shown some improvement over 2012, as this year we have gone backwards compared to last.

I think you misread me if you think I'm upset. You are most entitled to lament all you want. You also seem to be taking my sentiments very personally. I don't think I addressed you specifically, but if you want to claim to title of sad sack spokesman, you are welcome to it. Funnily enough I've never seen my club taste premiership success either. (what a coincidence!)

However I'm realistic enough to to acknowledge that my club drafted poorly between 2004 and 2009. I'm realistic enough to realise that our best draft effort during that period left for GWS. I'm realistic enough to realise that when we sign a coach who is noted primarily as a developer of young players and we activate our priority pick, it's going to be a pure development year! I was geared up for it. I fully expected a tough one, but thought, hey, I'll get to see the future of our club develop. Thats where the expectation sits.

On giving McCartney one more year, I'll bet Hawthorn fans were glad you weren't on their board when Clarkson led them to 3rd bottom in 2005! You can be as negative as you like, it's a Dogs fan's divine right! But over the top negativity has a destructive effect on footy clubs. My OPINION is that it does seem a bit unreasonably over the top at times from some on this forum. The fact that you've replied with such strong thoughts suggests to me that you might acknowledge that you acknowledge that you are a pretty tough marker.... And don't get me wrong, that's fine. I just hope you get something other than stomach ulcers, heart problems and hair loss over the next two years!

[Bornadog]

Re: Second half fade outs

I just hope you get something other than stomach ulcers, heart problems and hair loss over the next two years!

What I do take objection to is turning discussions into something personal like your statement above.

I didn't take any of your other posts as being directed to me or you being upset, I was just giving you my opinion on your reaction to negative posts.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Second half fade outs

I only joined Woof a few weeks back and I'm surprised to see how many sad sacks there are on the forum. People seem to genuinely think that McCartney should be waiving some kind of magic wand and have a bunch of 18 year olds suddenly out-muscling 25 year olds. Do people honestly think Wallis, Liberatore, Smith, Cordy etc will not be far better players at 25 than they are today? Geez, Brad Johnson used to get knocked off the ball and struggled to run out games in his early career BECAUSE HE WAS A KID!... Point is, you turn 19 the year after you turn 18. You dont turn 25! in order to get a 25 year old champion (as Johnno became) you have to wait! McCartney does not have a magic fast forward button! Fair enough this has been a tough year, but we'll have 10-15 players who will almost certainly be better for this year's experience. They'll know exactly what they need to work on over the summer. Next year this forum will probably have a page discussing last quarter fade outs, rather than 2nd half ones... but eventually even the sad sacks might just lighten up when this group matures. Point is, it'll take a couple more years:

Top post mate. Wish we had you here a lot earlier!!!

[Webby]

Re: Second half fade outs

What I do take objection to is turning discussions into something personal like your statement above.

I didn't take any of your other posts as being directed to me or you being upset, I was just giving you my opinion on your reaction to negative posts.

Look, if I've inadvertently stumbled onto that fact that you suffer from stomach ulcers, heart problems, hair loss or all of the above and therefore take my comments personally, I apologise unreservedly.

However I assure you my comments were an attempt at an analogy aimed at the broader sad sack fraternity. Not a personalised attack on yourself. In fact, I'm not even sure if I'm apologising to a man, woman, child, short, tall, thick or thin person. So hopefully that demonstrates how 'personally' aimed my comments were aimed at your good self.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Second half fade outs

Top post mate. Wish we had you here a lot earlier!!!

Yes your right, webby has changed my mind.
This coach is excellent, weekly losses by 80+ are great, treacle slow ball movement can work, no forward structure is the modern way, the 3 ruck strategy bound to work soon, all clubs will be dropping any players that don't crack in and the fact that club has become irrelevant is really a blessing in disguise.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Second half fade outs

Yes your right, webby has changed my mind.
This coach is excellent, weekly losses by 80+ are great, treacle slow ball movement can work, no forward structure is the modern way, the 3 ruck strategy bound to work soon, all clubs will be dropping any players that don't crack in and the fact that club has become irrelevant is really a blessing in disguise.

We could win every week and you'd still find something to moan about.

[Dogs 24/7]

Re: Second half fade outs

Yes your right, webby has changed my mind.
This coach is excellent, weekly losses by 80+ are great, treacle slow ball movement can work, no forward structure is the modern way, the 3 ruck strategy bound to work soon, all clubs will be dropping any players that don't crack in and the fact that club has become irrelevant is really a blessing in disguise.

Times have certainty changed but not the sarcasm and bitterness by some.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Second half fade outs

Sorry, allow me to introduce...
Webby, Chops. Chops, Webby.
You'll get to know and love him like we do.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Second half fade outs

Yes your right, webby has changed my mind.
This coach is excellent, weekly losses by 80+ are great, treacle slow ball movement can work, no forward structure is the modern way, the 3 ruck strategy bound to work soon, all clubs will be dropping any players that don't crack in and the fact that club has become irrelevant is really a blessing in disguise.

Love your work chops......

[LostDoggy]

Re: Second half fade outs

We could win every week and you'd still find something to moan about.

Why would I be unhappy if we win every week?

[Webby]

Re: Second half fade outs

Times have certainty changed but not the sarcasm and bitterness by some.

Okay, sarcasm it is.. Thanks for setting me straight, Chops. McCartney is an idiot. He's stupidly playing Barry Hall, Chris Grant, Simon Beasley and Kelvin Templeton out of position. He's failed to have Wallis, Liberatore, Smith, Howard, Tutt, Pearce, Skinner, Talia, Johanniesen and Jong develop three pre-seasons worth of growth, strength and stamina in order to execute an effective defensive press with fast movement forward transitioning into fast defensive movement backwards.. They should be moving the ball forward faster. because they have the physical capability to transition into defensive mode like a well drilled side at its physical career peak. He's also not trying to address the fact that his group need to develop their physicality, strength and stamina Its McCartney's fault that his list contains so much inexperience. He should have Roughead and Cordy either languishing in the VFL or simply carrying the rucking load between them.. He should magically have plucked more mature bodies out of nowhere without taking at least a season to have a good look at his list he inherited. He should have ordered Cooney's knee to be jabbed up and Morris to be rushed back for the finals. It is also McCartney's fault that our mature aged players like Grant, Hargreaves, Cross, Giansiracusa & Murphy offer such imposing size and strength to protect our younger developing players. Yes, list management over the past eight years is also McCartney's fault. He's on his last warning because he clearly inherited a premiership quality list which is perfectly aged and in its prime. He deserves no benefit of the doubt and should be hung out to dry. We should follow the Essendon model, shaft this outsider and bring in one of our own. He's had his chance and is clearly a dud.... I'm with you... And Hawthorn should've done the same with Clarkson in 2005.

[Redemption97]

Re: Second half fade outs

Okay, sarcasm it is.. Thanks for setting me straight, Chops. McCartney is an idiot. He's stupidly playing Barry Hall, Chris Grant, Simon Beasley and Kelvin Templeton out of position. He's failed to have Wallis, Liberatore, Smith, Howard, Tutt, Pearce, Skinner, Talia, Johanniesen and Jong develop three pre-seasons worth of growth, strength and stamina in order to execute an effective defensive press with fast movement forward transitioning into fast defensive movement backwards.. They should be moving the ball forward faster. because they have the physical capability to transition into defensive mode like a well drilled side at its physical career peak. He's also not trying to address the fact that his group need to develop their physicality, strength and stamina Its McCartney's fault that his list contains so much inexperience. He should have Roughead and Cordy either languishing in the VFL or simply carrying the rucking load between them.. He should magically have plucked more mature bodies out of nowhere without taking at least a season to have a good look at his list he inherited. He should have ordered Cooney's knee to be jabbed up and Morris to be rushed back for the finals. It is also McCartney's fault that our mature aged players like Grant, Hargreaves, Cross, Giansiracusa & Murphy offer such imposing size and strength to protect our younger developing players. Yes, list management over the past eight years is also McCartney's fault. He's on his last warning because he clearly inherited a premiership quality list which is perfectly aged and in its prime. He deserves no benefit of the doubt and should be hung out to dry. We should follow the Essendon model, shaft this outsider and bring in one of our own. He's had his chance and is clearly a dud.... I'm with you... And Hawthorn should've done the same with Clarkson in 2005.

It's easy to blame the coach Webby that way you don't have to open your eyes and be objective. Let them bask in their ignorant sorrow and love your work by the way! Go dogs!

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Second half fade outs

Okay, sarcasm it is.. Thanks for setting me straight, Chops. McCartney is an idiot. He's stupidly playing Barry Hall, Chris Grant, Simon Beasley and Kelvin Templeton out of position. He's failed to have Wallis, Liberatore, Smith, Howard, Tutt, Pearce, Skinner, Talia, Johanniesen and Jong develop three pre-seasons worth of growth, strength and stamina in order to execute an effective defensive press with fast movement forward transitioning into fast defensive movement backwards.. They should be moving the ball forward faster. because they have the physical capability to transition into defensive mode like a well drilled side at its physical career peak. He's also not trying to address the fact that his group need to develop their physicality, strength and stamina Its McCartney's fault that his list contains so much inexperience. He should have Roughead and Cordy either languishing in the VFL or simply carrying the rucking load between them.. He should magically have plucked more mature bodies out of nowhere without taking at least a season to have a good look at his list he inherited. He should have ordered Cooney's knee to be jabbed up and Morris to be rushed back for the finals. It is also McCartney's fault that our mature aged players like Grant, Hargreaves, Cross, Giansiracusa & Murphy offer such imposing size and strength to protect our younger developing players. Yes, list management over the past eight years is also McCartney's fault. He's on his last warning because he clearly inherited a premiership quality list which is perfectly aged and in its prime. He deserves no benefit of the doubt and should be hung out to dry. We should follow the Essendon model, shaft this outsider and bring in one of our own. He's had his chance and is clearly a dud.... I'm with you... And Hawthorn should've done the same with Clarkson in 2005.

Pace yourself Webby.