2018 Draft Watch

[DOG GOD]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

We average around 6 to 7 changes every year. How many do you want out this year?

I think it needs to be deep. I’d be looking at close to 10 if roughie and Dahl both moved on.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

We average around 6 to 7 changes every year. How many do you want out this year?

The answer DOG GOD provided to my question was about being brave with our list management and potentially letting good players go not about the number of players. To answer your question though our current slide over the last two years would strongly indicate we haven't quite done enough in terms of changes.

[Twodogs]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

He's an exciting prospect who may not ever be a high possession winner but is someone who can impact games.

To get into the mix of some of the better players this year we have to be very professional and brave with our list management and obviously be prepared to let some good players go. It will be interesting to see if we have that in us.

Normally we don’t have that in us. And it is a must this year for mine. We need to mark some hard decisions, but I don’t think we will.

Maybe the fact that it's a new recruitment team will mean they have less of an emotional investment in the players on the list and will be prepared to make the tough calls?

[GVGjr]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

Maybe the fact that it's a new recruitment team will mean they have less of an emotional investment in the players on the list and will be prepared to make the tough calls?

I'm not so sure TD, it comes down to if the coach is will to depart with marginal players.
The recruiting team will provide a list of players they think are around the mark of what we need but I guess the coach will be a major deciding factor on how hard we cut into the list.

I think we need to give the recruiting team some options because with a father son and a NGA selection as good as confirmed and probably 3 promotions off the rookie list they might not have a lot of live selections in the the first 3 or 4 rounds.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

What would Daniel net us in terms of a pick and would it be something we could look at to get back into the second round?

[GVGjr]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

What would Daniel net us in terms of a pick and would it be something we could look at to get back into the second round?

I don't think he would get you something in the 2nd round based on his form this year

And assuming it's Adelaide or Port then the Crows currently have pick 37 and Port have pick 47. Pick 37 (1st pick of the 3rd round) is worth 483 points would be something to consider but pick 47 is worth 316 points and that isn't much. Still it's probably around the mark for Khamis with the 20% discount.

I'd back us to keep him and turn his form around

[Mofra]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

I'm not so sure TD, it comes down to if the coach is will to depart with marginal players.
The recruiting team will provide a list of players they think are around the mark of what we need but I guess the coach will be a major deciding factor on how hard we cut into the list.

I'd expect the decision on marginal players will be made easier by a bottom 4 finish and the fact that we have pick 5, a FS and 3 academy kids who all seem worthy of a list spot.

If we do somehow manage to get late picks for some marginal types (e.g. Webb) that frees up spots too and we seriously have to consider more than just Clay Smith as retirements for guys who can't get on the paddock.
Redpath is contracted but he can't train and Schache is miles ahead of him now.

[ledge]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

I like to look at things simplisticly, is the player we recruit better than the player we are trading or delisting , for example people say delist Campbell ( just a name I like the guy ) but if we are only getting a pick 90 for him and he won't be any better why delist him ?
We want to improve the list not make it worse just for the sake of Changing.
Looking at the big picture how many players can you get rid of before your really scraping the bottom of the barrel in finding a replacement when we don't have a lot of high picks in the draft ? It's okay to say we need to cut deep but the outcome is what's the return ?

[boydogs]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

Looking at the big picture how many players can you get rid of before your really scraping the bottom of the barrel in finding a replacement when we don't have a lot of high picks in the draft ?

Plenty of Campbell-like players available each year as delisted free agents. But you're right to an extent, it's much more marginal when you're talking about late draft picks or delisted players

[soupman]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

Sure but in Campbells case we clearly arent going to use him so the question is is pick 90 better than an empty list spot? I'd say yes.

Honestly the mindset you are mentioning is kind of what the club has done for a long time and it's frustrating. We have a tendency to give every fringe player endless opportunities as if we owe them. Honeychurch, Prudden, Roarke, Campbell, Ayce Cordy are all good examples off the top of my head of players that were given multiple years to prove to us they weren't good enough despite for the most part early signs indicating they weren't up to it. Even someone like Fuller was absolute crap from the start and still got two years.

List spots are our most valuable commodity, and for squaddies lile the above the spot itself is worth more than their wage. Paying out someone like Fuller after his first year, or getting rid of Roberts now is a no brainer. The sooner we get the next player into their list spot the sooner we can find out if they're good enough and if not the sooner we can get the next one in. In the time Roarke has been on the list with minimal output and almost zero chance of being poached we could have tried him, another rookie and then if they failed another one. Thats three chances at finding a player with a rookie spot, something we have been good at in the past.

We should not be keeping absolute fringe players because we are scared their replacement won't be as handy a backup for the two times we need them. Or in Campbell's case, the zero times we use them. Considering our complete refusal to play Campbell this year we might as well have told him he can have the year off if he gives us a $20 note. It would have had zero impact ob our AFL team and we would be $20 better off.

[ledge]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

Sure but in Campbells case we clearly arent going to use him so the question is is pick 90 better than an empty list spot? I'd say yes.

Honestly the mindset you are mentioning is kind of what the club has done for a long time and it's frustrating. We have a tendency to give every fringe player endless opportunities as if we owe them. Honeychurch, Prudden, Roarke, Campbell, Ayce Cordy are all good examples off the top of my head of players that were given multiple years to prove to us they weren't good enough despite for the most part early signs indicating they weren't up to it. Even someone like Fuller was absolute crap from the start and still got two years.

List spots are our most valuable commodity, and for squaddies lile the above the spot itself is worth more than their wage. Paying out someone like Fuller after his first year, or getting rid of Roberts now is a no brainer. The sooner we get the next player into their list spot the sooner we can find out if they're good enough and if not the sooner we can get the next one in. In the time Roarke has been on the list with minimal output and almost zero chance of being poached we could have tried him, another rookie and then if they failed another one. Thats three chances at finding a player with a rookie spot, something we have been good at in the past.

We should not be keeping absolute fringe players because we are scared their replacement won't be as handy a backup for the two times we need them. Or in Campbell's case, the zero times we use them. Considering our complete refusal to play Campbell this year we might as well have told him he can have the year off if he gives us a $20 note. It would have had zero impact ob our AFL team and we would be $20 better off.

I see your point with how we have treated Campbell , it's astounding he hasn't got games when we have no ruck man, why keep him ?
We do keep some players on longer than we should but my thought Is at what stage of the draft are you recruiting lesser players ?
Cutting 8 or 9 players and 5 of them are replaced with picks 90 or above isn't what you want to be doing all in the one year.
Your list will be weaker.
Maybe we should recruit more mid age players from the sanfl or wafl in this case , at least you have a history of their body and a mature body.
We tend to spend our time picking rookies who take two years to prepare their body and are out injured a lot.

[Mofra]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

I like to look at things simplisticly, is the player we recruit better than the player we are trading or delisting , for example people say delist Campbell ( just a name I like the guy ) but if we are only getting a pick 90 for him and he won't be any better why delist him ?
We want to improve the list not make it worse just for the sake of Changing.
Looking at the big picture how many players can you get rid of before your really scraping the bottom of the barrel in finding a replacement when we don't have a lot of high picks in the draft ? It's okay to say we need to cut deep but the outcome is what's the return ?

With respect to BTC who is a great guy and has battled hard for this club, it's clear that the MC aren't going to pick him so the decision about his list spot is an easy one.

Let's not forget that more than most we've done pretty well with late picks and rookie spots. The highest (and technically, the only) draft pick we used on our entire defensive premiership 7 was 43 on Wood.

[Mofra]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

Maybe we should recruit more mid age players from the sanfl or wafl in this case , at least you have a history of their body and a mature body.

Like Gowers last year? I think we don't necessarily ignore state league players (Campbell, Boyd, Morris, Dickson, etc) but we have been unfortunate in not having picks to get a couple under our nose in recent times (Long, Hannan).
I imagine if we can get Hayes with a late pick that's a no brainer for us and if we lose both Roughy and BTC I wouldn't mind Zac Clarke as a cheap back up option (29, ex Freo, playing well in the WAFL) for 2-3 years which English develops.

[ledge]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

Like Gowers last year? I think we don't necessarily ignore state league players (Campbell, Boyd, Morris, Dickson, etc) but we have been unfortunate in not having picks to get a couple under our nose in recent times (Long, Hannan).
I imagine if we can get Hayes with a late pick that's a no brainer for us and if we lose both Roughy and BTC I wouldn't mind Zac Clarke as a cheap back up option (29, ex Freo, playing well in the WAFL) for 2-3 years which English develops.

Exactly .. Gowers had 2 years in the system and he certainly had something going for him.
Sometimes it's just a late maturity or having that one break out game that gets you going.
I'm all for picking up 21-22 year olds with a body ready to go.. There are plenty of examples in the AFL , most of the 18 year olds picked take two years to get up to speed , you actually pay players for no return the first two years and nowadays they tend to want to move clubs , thus you spent two years getting a player ready for another club!
You trade them for a draft pick and it's an on going cycle.
Of course you have to find the balance but I tend to lean towards the older than the younger if they aren't high draft picks.

[Happy Days]

Re: 2018 Draft Watch

It's hard to fully ascertain with the resources available, but everything I read seems to be saying the talent level in the WAFL at the moment is pretty high.