2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • bulldogtragic
    The List Manager
    • Jan 2007
    • 34316

    2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

    Last time we were successful with great depth, 2016, we lost Hamling, Stevens & Hrovat to trades. I get the sense this might happen again. We also have just one pick inside the end of the fourth round. We need to get back in.

    So right now I’m thinking:

    Jong (retired/delisted)
    Hayes (delisted - one of Hayes or Scott is enough)
    Cavarra (delisted - McNeil looks to have moved passed him already)

    Wallis (I’d hold off and allow his manager to shop him around. Then come to us with years/dollars and if it’s better to let him go, bank the compo)

    JJ (I’d offer him a one year extension on top of his last contracted year next year on very little money. He may seek a trade, which is fine, or his salary drops significantly over the then 2 years to just above the average AFL wage. Good depth player on that money, but not big money. I can see him getting some interest)

    Dunkley stays unless we get an offer too good to refuse. But I want him.

    I’d expect clubs to go hard after Lipinski, Richards, Schache & Young. These are possibly going to be the Hamling, Stevens & Hrovat of our strong list depth. If we could offload the circa $900,000 of Walis & JJ combined maybe we keep the younger guys.


    So I think we need 5 spots, which I think we will have. Realigning the list back to 38 Primary, 4 Rookie (Gardner, Smith, McNeil and one new rookie). Jong & two re-opened Primary spots gives us 3 vacancies. So two more outgoing players to get to 4-5 spots. 1 used for a trade (ie McAsey), 4 for the draft - elevating Sweet & Buku, and maybe a priority access or two (possibly later on - to - rookie) from our two live ND Picks and one RD Pick.

    Early call:

    Out: Jong, Hayes, Cavarra, two others being maybe Wallis & JJ
    In: 1st (if it’s around 18-20, then involved with McAsey or similar), circa end of 2nd (JJ), 3rd Rounder (Wallis), 4th & 5th Rounder on Sweet & Buku upgraded, 2 live ND picks (2nd & 3rd) & 1 RD pick (with Priority Access Potential)


    There’s far too many variables for this to be even close, but there’s a few interesting things to consider like depth, or letting veterans go to keep younger talent. Are some players going to be at peak value and consider trading out if they’re happy and will Bevos favourites like Smith & Cordy get extended throughout the year or wait and see (I don’t see them being cut). What is the number one priority, KPD or small pressure forward?

    Discuss.


    (P.S. I love this thread because sometimes you’re right, and sometimes players make you look stupid with a great middle and end to the season)
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023
  • Scraggers
    Premiership Moderator
    • Jun 2008
    • 3547

    #2
    Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

    Thanks BT ... I absolutely love your posts about current and future drafts; I get excited about what could be particularly with the names you are touting.

    BUT ... I have huge issues with moving on our F/S players. Wallis needs to stay. Not picking up McPherson was disappointing, particularly when you see him do well at Gold Coast. But having a F/S player in our ranks and talking about moving him on really goes against my beliefs. If he was shite (aka Ayce Cordy) I understand we don't offer him a contract, but we are very quick to forget that Wallis was our leading goal kicker last year with 25 ... 10 more than Naughton, 11 more than Bruce. Yes, he has started the season slow, but he has played two games (against Collingwood and West Coast) and we are talking about moving him on??

    I don't get it; surely we are not that cut-throat that we move on our Vice Captain, a F/S, last year's leading goal scorer, based on two games?? I reiterate ... Wallis needs to stay

    Comment

    • Bornadog
      WOOF Clubhouse Leader
      • Jan 2007
      • 65998

      #3
      Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

      Hayes is a rookie, does that make a difference?
      FFC: Established 1883

      Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

      Comment

      • bulldogtragic
        The List Manager
        • Jan 2007
        • 34316

        #4
        Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

        Originally posted by Scraggers
        Thanks BT ... I absolutely love your posts about current and future drafts; I get excited about what could be particularly with the names you are touting.

        BUT ... I have huge issues with moving on our F/S players. Wallis needs to stay. Not picking up McPherson was disappointing, particularly when you see him do well at Gold Coast. But having a F/S player in our ranks and talking about moving him on really goes against my beliefs. If he was shite (aka Ayce Cordy) I understand we don't offer him a contract, but we are very quick to forget that Wallis was our leading goal kicker last year with 25 ... 10 more than Naughton, 11 more than Bruce. Yes, he has started the season slow, but he has played two games (against Collingwood and West Coast) and we are talking about moving him on??

        I don't get it; surely we are not that cut-throat that we move on our Vice Captain, a F/S, last year's leading goal scorer, based on two games?? I reiterate ... Wallis needs to stay
        I’m not explicitly saying get rid of him. I’m saying let’s have his manager shop Mitch around. If say North offered three years and $400,000 for example and Mitch’s manager wanted something close, I’d not match it. That’s Mitch exercising his free agency rights. This is his last good years/dollars contract, so i have no issue with him leaving for more years and more money, we get a compo pick. We did something similar with Dahl where his manager said Geelong were offering more years and money. He left which was a good result for him and us (points for West). If Mitch says he’s happy with one year extensions on average salary, that’s another conversation.
        Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

        Comment

        • bulldogtragic
          The List Manager
          • Jan 2007
          • 34316

          #5
          Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

          Originally posted by bornadog
          Hayes is a rookie, does that make a difference?
          No. We just move the list structure to have two less rookies, and two more primary spots. As was our custom prior to the changes last year.
          Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

          Comment

          • mjp
            Bulldog Team of the Century
            • Jan 2007
            • 7304

            #6
            Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

            Originally posted by bulldogtragic
            I’d expect clubs to go hard after Lipinski, Richards, Schache & Young. These are possibly going to be the Hamling, Stevens & Hrovat of our strong list depth. If we could offload the circa $900,000 of Walis & JJ combined maybe we keep the younger guys.
            Well...the problem is they wont go 'HARD'. Because they aren't playing. So they will offer 3/5'ths of 1/3rd of nothing and we'll probably have to take it.

            Each of those players - with the exception of Lipinski who is getting opportunity - should be looking to move on. And we should probably facilitate it.
            What should I tell her? She's going to ask.

            Comment

            • Scraggers
              Premiership Moderator
              • Jun 2008
              • 3547

              #7
              Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

              Originally posted by bulldogtragic
              I’m not explicitly saying get rid of him. I’m saying let’s have his manager shop Mitch around. If say North offered three years and $400,000 for example and Mitch’s manager wanted something close, I’d not match it. That’s Mitch exercising his free agency rights. This is his last good years/dollars contract, so i have no issue with him leaving for more years and more money, we get a compo pick. We did something similar with Dahl where his manager said Geelong were offering more years and money. He left which was a good result for him and us (points for West). If Mitch says he’s happy with one year extensions on average salary, that’s another conversation.
              Thanks BT ... my comment isn't solely based around your suggestion or this thread, it has been discussed in other threads and I just don't understand the thought process behind it.

              Comment

              • Bornadog
                WOOF Clubhouse Leader
                • Jan 2007
                • 65998

                #8
                Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

                Originally posted by bulldogtragic
                No. We just move the list structure to have two less rookies, and two more primary spots. As was our custom prior to the changes last year.
                You need to re-check that

                Rookies are: Hayes, Cavarra, Roarke and Sweet with Buku Cat B
                FFC: Established 1883

                Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

                Comment

                • comrade
                  Hall of Fame
                  • Jun 2008
                  • 17903

                  #9
                  Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

                  Richards has played about 90% of the games he’s been available for, he’s had plenty of opportunity even when his form didn’t warrant it.
                  Our 1954 premiership players are our heroes, and it has to be said that Charlie was their hero.

                  Comment

                  • Axe Man
                    Hall of Fame
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 10976

                    #10
                    Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

                    Originally posted by bornadog
                    You need to re-check that

                    Rookies are: Hayes, Cavarra, Roarke and Sweet with Buku Cat B
                    Um there is a mythical source of this information that will reveal Gardner and McNeil are also rookies. Don't doubt BT.

                    Comment

                    • bulldogtragic
                      The List Manager
                      • Jan 2007
                      • 34316

                      #11
                      Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

                      Originally posted by Scraggers
                      Thanks BT ... my comment isn't solely based around your suggestion or this thread, it has been discussed in other threads and I just don't understand the thought process behind it.
                      That’s why woof is good. There’s opposite arguments to make in a discussion around the list. Dealing with a contract for Wally isn’t my highest priority. It’s nothing against him, but we need to open up spots and get back into the draft, and Wally is a free agent.
                      Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

                      Comment

                      • Bornadog
                        WOOF Clubhouse Leader
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 65998

                        #12
                        Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

                        Originally posted by Axe Man
                        Um there is a mythical source of this information that will reveal Gardner and McNeil are also rookies. Don't doubt BT.
                        6 rookies? plus Buku

                        What about Scott?
                        FFC: Established 1883

                        Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

                        Comment

                        • Axe Man
                          Hall of Fame
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 10976

                          #13
                          Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

                          Originally posted by bornadog
                          6 rookies? plus Buku

                          What about Scott?
                          Yes 6 category A rookies and 1 category B rookie. You can have 4, 5 or 6 category A rookies and reduce your primary list accordingly if you have 5 or 6.

                          Scott took Lloyd's spot on the primary list as an SSP signing. Also, simply as a process of elimination he couldn't be a rookie as we already had the maximum 6 category A rookies when we signed him.

                          Comment

                          • bulldogtragic
                            The List Manager
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 34316

                            #14
                            Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

                            Looking at the article recently posted here on Sam Darcy being potential top 20. Imagine if he goes around Pick 30, if Raak hypothetically passes the MSD and goes passed 20 and if Macca and another NGA kid are late pick possibles. Plus if our first rounder was a part in some sense to get McAsey (or similar). Then we are needing with more seriousness to get back into the draft to accumulate draft points.
                            Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

                            Comment

                            • Topdog
                              Bulldog Team of the Century
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 7471

                              #15
                              Re: 2021 Rolling List Management Discussion

                              Originally posted by Scraggers
                              Thanks BT ... my comment isn't solely based around your suggestion or this thread, it has been discussed in other threads and I just don't understand the thought process behind it.
                              because we only have 42 spots on the list and have to think about both now and the future, there is very little room for sentiment.

                              Comment

                              Working...