2013 draft watch

[Remi Moses]

Re: 2013 draft watch

Ask any key football personnel they'll tell you that Key Forwards are as rare as hens teeth.
Just another example Jon Brown
Collingwood through the kitchen sink at him years ago, and it was rumoured in the millions.
Why do you think Hawthorn and some other suitors are willing to pay millions for Franklin?
You can throw up any stat you like but the proof is in the pudding

[lemmon]

Re: 2013 draft watch

Ask any key football personnel they'll tell you that Key Forwards are as rare as hens teeth.
Just another example Jon Brown
Collingwood through the kitchen sink at him years ago, and it was rumoured in the millions.
Why do you think Hawthorn and some other suitors are willing to pay millions for Franklin?
You can throw up any stat you like but the proof is in the pudding

Couldn't agree more, the AFL had Mike Sheehan name the top 50 players of all time for the 150 year anniversary a few years ago. 5 of the top 10 were key position players, 2 were ruckman and three were smalls, I know this is a subjective measure but if we're using Supercoach rankings than whats it matter. Admittedly this has nothing to do with draft rankings but to dismiss the importance of key forwards its ridiculous, teams build around them for a reason

[Scorlibo]

Re: 2013 draft watch

Brown, Cloke and Hawkins were all top 10 picks easily, the same cannot be said for Libba or Ablett. Neither were rated that highly and you continuously repeating it isnt going to make it true.

Sydney bid for Libba with pick 21 and Ablett was rated as a top 20 pick too.

Pick 21? As in the pick right before our first pick?

Let's not pretend that the bidding system means anything in this situation, whereby the club had already committed 100% to both Liberatore and Wallis. We can argue about this until the cows come home, neither of us know exactly where Libba would have gone, but I guarantee you it would have been in the top 20, not a skerrick of doubt.

Yep, Hawkins would've vied with Bryce Gibbs to go number 1. Essendon are a great example for mine, have invested heavily in key position players and its paying dividends; Hurley, Gumby, Ryder, now Joe Danniher were all high first rounds. Even Jake Carlisle was pick 24. Their midfield, with Stanton, Melksham Goddard and Heppell aside all came outside of the first round.

It's absurd that you're associating the drafting of Gumbleton and Daniher with Essendon's success, Gumby only came into the side a few weeks ago and Daniher hasn't played a game. Ryder and Hurley are out injured, to boot.

I suppose you think Melbourne are the next big thing because they drafted Watts with pick 1 in the same year as Hurley?

And Port Adelaide are winning because of Jay Shulz, not because they drafted guys like Boak and Hartlett with high draft picks.

Take those 4 Bombers midfielders out and all of a sudden, you don't have much of a midfield! Goddard and Heppell often play elsewhere but Stanton is a key cog and they struggled against GWS without him.

Ask any key football personnel they'll tell you that Key Forwards are as rare as hens teeth.
Just another example Jon Brown
Collingwood through the kitchen sink at him years ago, and it was rumoured in the millions.
Why do you think Hawthorn and some other suitors are willing to pay millions for Franklin?
You can throw up any stat you like but the proof is in the pudding

Do you mean good key forwards are as rare as hen's teeth? Last I checked most sides play with two key forwards.

Why do you think Carlton paid millions for Judd? Gold Coast for Ablett? Because they're elite players, like Brown was at one point and like Franklin still is. It's not about KPF vs midfielder.

Couldn't agree more, the AFL had Mike Sheehan name the top 50 players of all time for the 150 year anniversary a few years ago. 5 of the top 10 were key position players, 2 were ruckman and three were smalls, I know this is a subjective measure but if we're using Supercoach rankings than whats it matter. Admittedly this has nothing to do with draft rankings but to dismiss the importance of key forwards its ridiculous, teams build around them for a reason

Because supercoach rankings are objective and they're scientific. How many times to I have to say it? They're the best measure out there.

But if you prefer the ol' journo ratings, here we go - Herald Sun Player of the Year:

2012 - Ablett
2011 - Mitchell
2010 - Swan
2009 - Swan
2008 - Harvey
2007 - Ablett
2006 - Goodes
2005 - Cousins
2004 - Tredrea
2003 - Voss
2002 - Darcy
2001 - Black
2000 - Koutoufides
1999 - Crawford
1998 - Buckley
1997 - Harvey
1996 - Burke
1995 - Winmar
1994 - Williams
1993 - Williams
1992 - Wynd
1991 - Stynes

17 midfielders. 3 ruckmen. 1 key forward. 1 utility.

Or, even better, seeing as you're such a fan of Mike Sheahan's, here's his top 20 from the start of this year:

1. Gary Ablett
2. Scott Pendlebury
2. Patrick Dangerfield
4. Lance Franklin
5. Josh Kennedy
6. Joel Selwood
7. Trent Cotchin
8. Jobe Watson
9. Taylor Walker
10. Dayne Beams

11. Sam Mitchell
12. Travis Cloke
13. Dane Swan
14. Marc Murphy
15. Adam Goodes
16. Dean Cox
17. Tom Hawkins
18. Chris Judd
19. Matthew Pavlich
20. Scott Thompson

13 midfielders.

[Topdog]

Re: 2013 draft watch

You seem to have gone from arguing about draft position not being important to draft a good midfielder to a midfielder being more important than a KPF.

[Scorlibo]

Re: 2013 draft watch

You seem to have gone from arguing about draft position not being important to draft a good midfielder to a midfielder being more important than a KPF.

It was lemmon who brought everyone's attention to the latter. They're inevitably related. My argument remains that it's just as intelligent spending high draft picks on midfielders as it is spending those picks on key forwards.

[lemmon]

Re: 2013 draft watch

It was lemmon who brought everyone's attention to the latter. They're inevitably related. My argument remains that it's just as intelligent spending high draft picks on midfielders as it is spending those picks on key forwards.

I brought attention to that? You went on a tangent about supercoach and norm smith medals highlighting player values, not me...remind me what that has to do with draft position again?

[Scorlibo]

Re: 2013 draft watch

I brought attention to that? You went on a tangent about supercoach and norm smith medals highlighting player values, not me...remind me what that has to do with draft position again?

You brought attention to key forwards being more important than midfielders with your Mike Sheahan's top 50 of all time post.

[Scorlibo]

Re: 2013 draft watch

Or even Remi before you, talking about how "key forwards win games and premierships".

[Scorlibo]

Re: 2013 draft watch

You can throw up any stat you like but the proof is in the pudding

The expression is, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I'm not sure what proof you're talking about here. You haven't given any.

[Greystache]

Re: 2013 draft watch

Can we either get back to discussing the 2013 draft or wrap this up. The discussion is off track, very repetitive, and not going anywhere.

[Scorlibo]

Re: 2013 draft watch

Can we either get back to discussing the 2013 draft or wrap this up. The discussion is off track, very repetitive, and not going anywhere.

We shouldn't draft Boyd purely because he's a key forward.

[Remi Moses]

Re: 2013 draft watch

Back on track . Boyd will go pick 1.

[Remi Moses]

Re: 2013 draft watch

We shouldn't draft Boyd purely because he's a key forward.

Nobody's actually said that . All I'm saying and it's a popular view, that if a Mid and Key are on level footing the recruiter usually goes key forward. We should draft the best available player obviously.

[wimberga]

Re: 2013 draft watch

Back on track . Boyd will go pick 1.

I'm not so sure about that Remi - I think it will depend on who finishes bottom. With Patton & Cameron, I am not so sure that GWS, if they do finish bottom, would take Boyd over Aish.

Everything I have read says Aish is too good to pass up on with Boyd being number 2.

[Greystache]

Re: 2013 draft watch

We shouldn't draft Boyd purely because he's a key forward.

You really love to labour a point.