2021 Trade Period Talk

[jeemak]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

So what other clubs addressed need? It's not that easy.

Sydney addressed their ruck situation by bringing in Ladhams. Richmond addressed their need for a key defender by bringing in Tarrant. Adelaide addressed their quality issues generally, while Carlton improved their midfield after it being a major weakness.

We did well to bring in O'Brien for not much, and if he is played successfully as an intercept defender then needs are partially addressed.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Sydney addressed their ruck situation by bringing in Ladhams. Richmond addressed their need for a key defender by bringing in Tarrant. Adelaide addressed their quality issues generally, while Carlton improved their midfield after it being a major weakness.

We did well to bring in O'Brien for not much, and if he is played successfully as an intercept defender then needs are partially addressed.

It's slim.

The Swans had Hickey, agree though Ladhams was the one I wanted.
Tarrant yep good call.
Dawson is a great get.

Cerra great get.

Not a massive period.

[kruder]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I'm still keen to have a look at Sam Skinner. Does anyone know if we have room for another player on top of Darcy?

[jeemak]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

It's slim.

The Swans had Hickey, agree though Ladhams was the one I wanted.
Tarrant yep good call.
Dawson is a great get.

Cerra great get.

Not a massive period.

Probably add Geelong to that given they landed Ceglar.

[soupman]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Is that code for correct?

Other clubs trade success or lack thereof does not change our performance.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Other clubs trade success or lack thereof does not change our performance.

Fair enough Soup.

Apart from Ladhams Im struggling to see what we could have done differently.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Fair enough Soup.

Apart from Ladhams Im struggling to see what we could have done differently.

Ladhams would have cost next years first - no thanks

[GVGjr]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

Young is not a ruck, nor was Dunkley for that matter. We haven’t lost any ruck stock.

So why did we prefer Young over Sweet late in the season? We've at least lost depth.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I'm still keen to have a look at Sam Skinner. Does anyone know if we have room for another player on top of Darcy?

We haven't finalised the list yet but I suspect we will have room for 3 more players.

[jeemak]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

So why did we prefer Young over Sweet late in the season? We've at least lost depth.

I would guess because even though Young can't run to the extent required to nail down a spot in defence he could run harder than Sweet could in the ruck.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I would guess because even though Young can't run to the extent required to nail down a spot in defence he could run harder than Sweet could in the ruck.

I think that is right but it also underlines that even after 3 years with us Sweet is still very much a work in progress.
English unsigned beyond 2022, Sweet still a work in progress, question marks on Martin's fitness and now the loss of the versatile Young is a calculated level of risk we are prepared to take. We won't even have Bruce to provide a chop out.

We can't really use is the 'injury' excuse next season when you intentionally thin the options to cover the ruck and ignore some of the signs I described above.

[mjp]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I think that is right but it also underlines that even after 3 years with us Sweet is still very much a work in progress.
English unsigned beyond 2022, Sweet still a work in progress, question marks on Martin's fitness and now the loss of the versatile Young is a calculated level of risk we are prepared to take. We won't even have Bruce to provide a chop out.

We can't really use is the 'injury' excuse next season when you intentionally thin the options to cover the ruck and ignore some of the signs I described above.

I think everything you are saying is correct but I'm still not sure what the club was supposed to do in this particular trade period. We have no picks to trade. I will continue to say the decision to get Martin last year was a poor one (the fact he missed basically the entire season with injury and was largely ineffective when he played was entirely predictable based on his performances at Brisbane) but again - it's too late to worry about the sunk cost of that now.

I understand the angst about the club not addressing any needs - and I am really disappointed by the decision to recruit O'Brien and am simply hoping that he has been mis-cast at Hawthorn for the past 10years - but again, what would we have had them do?

The best two ruckman of the past 20 years would be Dean Cox and (probably) Max Gawn - both of whom were rookie selections. All I can really offer is that we simply MUST create enough space on the rookie list EVERY YEAR to recruit one player to take 'a flyer' on. Every single year. I 100% maintain that ruckman are born and not made (they can be developed and improve of course!) but if they don't have 'IT' then, well...they don't have it. And it can take a few years to shine through...

There are very few 'specialist' roles in footy these days:

1/. Ruckman - takes time on the list to grow into their body and be effective.
2/. Crumbing forward. It's innate. Goal-kickers, crumbers, trouble makers.
3/. Intercept defender. Risky to draft them as teenage interceptors so often become senior players who cannot defend when the time comes...these players so often now seem to be players transitioning from the forward half (Doedee) as a junior OR who have had a lot more exposure to zoning defense priciples (basically meaning soccer players as basketball is too small a field for this skillset).

We have to be constantly trying to find these 3x players...

[comrade]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I think everything you are saying is correct but I'm still not sure what the club was supposed to do in this particular trade period. We have no picks to trade. I will continue to say the decision to get Martin last year was a poor one (the fact he missed basically the entire season with injury and was largely ineffective when he played was entirely predictable based on his performances at Brisbane) but again - it's too late to worry about the sunk cost of that now.

I understand the angst about the club not addressing any needs - and I am really disappointed by the decision to recruit O'Brien and am simply hoping that he has been mis-cast at Hawthorn for the past 10years - but again, what would we have had them do?

The best two ruckman of the past 20 years would be Dean Cox and (probably) Max Gawn - both of whom were rookie selections. All I can really offer is that we simply MUST create enough space on the rookie list EVERY YEAR to recruit one player to take 'a flyer' on. Every single year. I 100% maintain that ruckman are born and not made (they can be developed and improve of course!) but if they don't have 'IT' then, well...they don't have it. And it can take a few years to shine through...

There are very few 'specialist' roles in footy these days:

1/. Ruckman - takes time on the list to grow into their body and be effective.
2/. Crumbing forward. It's innate. Goal-kickers, crumbers, trouble makers.
3/. Intercept defender. Risky to draft them as teenage interceptors so often become senior players who cannot defend when the time comes...these players so often now seem to be players transitioning from the forward half (Doedee) as a junior OR who have had a lot more exposure to zoning defense priciples (basically meaning soccer players as basketball is too small a field for this skillset).

We have to be constantly trying to find these 3x players...

It’s interesting that we lack any depth/talent in those 3 roles while the premiership winning team have it in spades.

Food for thought.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

I think everything you are saying is correct but I'm still not sure what the club was supposed to do in this particular trade period. We have no picks to trade. I will continue to say the decision to get Martin last year was a poor one (the fact he missed basically the entire season with injury and was largely ineffective when he played was entirely predictable based on his performances at Brisbane) but again - it's too late to worry about the sunk cost of that now.

We have future picks that can be traded so we did have some currency. A lot of the trades didn't break the bank
If we don't rate the position or we can't actually secure rucks with the specific skill set we are after then we can always find some short term options to provide some coverage. We have chosen not to do that. If it works out well in 2022 for us we will all be happy enough. If we lose English next season we will really have some challenges.

[mjp]

Re: 2021 Trade Period Talk

It’s interesting that we lack any depth/talent in those 3 roles while the premiership winning team have it in spades.

Food for thought.

We have a different philosophy to other sides.

Our entire footy team seems to have 'versatility' as a base principle. As in, we want players who will be able to play in 3-4 different roles throughout the course of a game. I will maintain forever that the recruitment of Treloar - whilst opportunistic - was not necessarily smart because we simply DON'T have a role for him to play. With Liber, Bont, Dunks and Jacko, where does he play? I can't accept this doesn't cause problems with minutes, problems with individual roles...

Our defensive 6/7 seem relatively settled (angst over the capabilities of Cordy, Wood and Gardner aside) but the rest of the team? What does our forward line look like? Who is our second ruckman? And how could we NOT know these things well before the Grand Final.

I am 100% ride or die with Bevo but it really is challenging trying to understand what is going on from week to week...and I truly believe that players are at their best when they are secure in their role and confident in their position in the team...if form drops away - the replacement should be CLEAR - the 'next' player from that line group (forwards, mids, backs) who has been performing at training/Tier2.

Our insistence on having a versatile team makes being a specialist 'hard'. I mean, how can you work on your forward line crumbing skills if you are also expected to be improving your running capacity/game sense to potentially play as the fatside winger? I will maintain forever that the primary driver behind Smith's improved (Roarke this is) form in the past 12-15 months has been the fact that he has played ONE role and stopped being shuttled from HF to O-mid to H-Back from week to week...

Our recruiting reflects this idea of being versatile as well...or seems too.