ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

[Ghost Dog]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

It's the right decision. I'm relieved, for the long term future of the game.

[Jeanette54]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

On another level, the decision is a real slap in the face to the ASADA/AFL investigation. I know that their onus of proof was a little more restrictive, but this is a very different result.

For their own sake I think the AFL should take a step back from any future issues/investigations such as this one.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

I suspect too that it was an easy decision because the accused are small fish to fry. Australia's indigenous sport is suitable small fry for reputation-enhancing brave decisions.

I don't agree with this. We have seen the likes of Lance Armstrong, others on his Tour De France team, Marion Jones and many others given equivalent penalties without ever failing a drug test, based on not entirely dissimilar levels of evidence.

I can't see Australianness as being a factor in this.

[F'scary]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Is it seen as a brave decision in any way? Seems like a bloody easy one. Essendon have said they have no idea what was injected into the players bodies. The waiver form mentioned a banned drug. Dank bought copious amounts of a banned drug. Said banned drug cannot be found.

The not guilty decision was seen as a cover up. It got blasted by international press and we were seen as a laughing stock.

A big AFL/Essendon stuff up - fair enough, but so much harsher than the NRL decision (where they pleaded guilty).

I feel very sorry for the players. I believe there were strong elements of coercion and deception involved. I know the individual is ultimately responsible for his actions but there are mitigating circumstances, I'm pretty sure of that - I can't believe the players would have participated if they had been told that being caught would involve a 12 month+ suspension.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

"As to sanction, the Players cannot show lack of significant fault or negligence in committing the anti-doping rule violations because, inter alia, they signed the consent forms to receive the prohibited substance, received the injections and failed to disclose the injections on doping control forms."

Link: http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/use...A_ESSENDON.pdf

Says it all for me.

Reading through the reasons, I don't really understand the "legalese" however it appears to me that Crameri was fairly forthcoming with evidence.

[merantau]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

James Hird is "OUTRAGED!" Who would've thought?

[Topdog]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

A big AFL/Essendon stuff up - fair enough, but so much harsher than the NRL decision (where they pleaded guilty).

I feel very sorry for the players. I believe there were strong elements of coercion and deception involved. I know the individual is ultimately responsible for his actions but there are mitigating circumstances, I'm pretty sure of that - I can't believe the players would have participated if they had been told that being caught would involve a 12 month+ suspension.

Same penalty was offered to Essendon who rejected it. Again at the time it was mentioned that Essendon were being arrogant and should accept what was an extremely lenient offer.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Hird has damn near killed the EFC.

I like Hird.*

* Not being serious.

[Twodogs]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Same penalty was offered to Essendon who rejected it. Again at the time it was mentioned that Essendon were being arrogant and should accept what was an extremely lenient offer.

Essendon didn't reject anything. They accepted the deal the AFL and the government came up with in the first instance. Then Cronulla arked up because they wanted the same deal.

[Sedat]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

A big AFL/Essendon stuff up - fair enough, but so much harsher than the NRL decision (where they pleaded guilty).

I feel very sorry for the players. I believe there were strong elements of coercion and deception involved. I know the individual is ultimately responsible for his actions but there are mitigating circumstances, I'm pretty sure of that - I can't believe the players would have participated if they had been told that being caught would involve a 12 month+ suspension.

Reading the transcript of the decision, much of the "strong elements of coercion and deception" were actually conducted by the players themselves.

The natural reaction is to feel sympathy for the players - they are who we recognise and are the ones out there in the heat of battle. But the reality is that they were complicit and active participants in covering up a systematic doping program - this is on a par with the East German athlete doping regime in the 70/80's, the Chinese swimmers in the 90's, Team Armstrong and the BALCO scandal, and the players were in it up to their eye teeth.

If anything the players were given very sympathetic back-dating benefits, especially considering their level of involvement in concealing the doping program (as outlined in today's findings). Ultimately every clean footballer should feel vindicated today, because Essendon weren't playing clean in 2012 (and probably not 2013/4 either due to residual effects/benefits). And remember that only TB-4 was on trial because there was clear evidence linking that drug to the club/players - there were a whole host of other drugs (including AOD, Hexarelin and other assorted nasties) suspected of being taken during that period, but the club's shredders (and the AFL tip-off) took care of any such potential evidence.

As for the AFL's handling of this saga from day one, the less said the better. Whilst they can stage-manage outcomes and control media with regard to tanking, disclosing sensitive game plans, betting, salary cap rorting, when it comes to doping they were hopelessly out of their depth. We should be eternally grateful that the AFL has been exposed by the CAS in this instance, and hopefully it triggers a complete change of philosophy. They are no better than FIFA or the ICC.

[F'scary]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Same penalty was offered to Essendon who rejected it. Again at the time it was mentioned that Essendon were being arrogant and should accept what was an extremely lenient offer.

Ouch!!!

[Twodogs]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Reading the transcript of the decision, much of the "strong elements of coercion and deception" were actually conducted by the players themselves.

The natural reaction is to feel sympathy for the players - they are who we recognise and are the ones out there in the heat of battle. But the reality is that they were complicit and active participants in covering up a systematic doping program - this is on a par with the East German athlete doping regime in the 70/80's, the Chinese swimmers in the 90's, Team Armstrong and the BALCO scandal, and the players were in it up to their eye teeth.

If anything the players were given very sympathetic back-dating benefits, especially considering their level of involvement in concealing the doping program (as outlined in today's findings). Ultimately every clean footballer should feel vindicated today, because Essendon weren't playing clean in 2012 (and probably not 2013/4 either due to residual effects/benefits). And remember that only TB-4 was on trial because there was clear evidence linking that drug to the club/players - there were a whole host of other drugs (including AOD, Hexarelin and other assorted nasties) suspected of being taken during that period, but the club's shredders (and the AFL tip-off) took care of any such potential evidence.

As for the AFL's handling of this saga from day one, the less said the better. Whilst they can stage-manage outcomes and control media with regard to tanking, disclosing sensitive game plans, betting, salary cap rorting, when it comes to doping they weren't hopelessly out of their depth. We should be eternally grateful that the AFL has been exposed by the CAS in this instance, and hopefully it triggers a complete change of philosophy. They are no better than FIFA or the ICC.

What evidence? Nothing has been proven. Dragging people in front of Star Chambers proves nothing.

[F'scary]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Reading the transcript of the decision, much of the "strong elements of coercion and deception" were actually conducted by the players themselves.

The natural reaction is to feel sympathy for the players - they are who we recognise and are the ones out there in the heat of battle. But the reality is that they were complicit and active participants in covering up a systematic doping program - this is on a par with the East German athlete doping regime in the 70/80's, the Chinese swimmers in the 90's, Team Armstrong and the BALCO scandal, and the players were in it up to their eye teeth.

If anything the players were given very sympathetic back-dating benefits, especially considering their level of involvement in concealing the doping program (as outlined in today's findings). Ultimately every clean footballer should feel vindicated today, because Essendon weren't playing clean in 2012 (and probably not 2013/4 either due to residual effects/benefits). And remember that only TB-4 was on trial because there was clear evidence linking that drug to the club/players - there were a whole host of other drugs (including AOD, Hexarelin and other assorted nasties) suspected of being taken during that period, but the club's shredders (and the AFL tip-off) took care of any such potential evidence.

As for the AFL's handling of this saga from day one, the less said the better. Whilst they can stage-manage outcomes and control media with regard to tanking, disclosing sensitive game plans, betting, salary cap rorting, when it comes to doping they were hopelessly out of their depth. We should be eternally grateful that the AFL has been exposed by the CAS in this instance, and hopefully it triggers a complete change of philosophy. They are no better than FIFA or the ICC.

A really good series of points, Sedat, and I think you have captured my emotional response to the decision this morning. I still feel though there may have been a considerable element of coercion - with the Soviet Bloc and Chinese athletes, there would have been even stronger coercion in their cases (poor bastards)!

[Scraggers]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

I'm pleased with the outcome in that it brings some small amount of integrity back to the sport I love. Whilst I'm disappointed it affects our club, we knew this could be a possible outcome when recruiting both Brett and Stewart.

The ramifications will be felt by Essendon for decades. Law suits that follow because of ill-health, ability to start families, mental scarring etc. will desimate the once mighty Essendon footy club.

[Scraggers]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

What evidence? Nothing has been proven. Dragging people in front of Star Chambers proves nothing.

I'm no lawyer, but on page 13 doesn't it elude to say the 34 players urine samples tested positive to BT4?