2023 List Management Thread

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

With Kai Lohmann and Dev Robertson both unsigned at the Lions, would it be worth having a crack at both?
Small forward who is really good overhead for his size, and a guy who can legitimately transfer to inside mid given a bit more time.
Both are young so have plenty of football & development left.

We keep our first for an outside mid/wing type and look at KPD depth (subject to Croft's position at AFL level) and we'd be looking far more balanced.

It's such a hard call but I'd probably pass on getting both of them as a pair.
Either player could have potentially been used as part of the Dunkley deal and Brisbane passed on that option.
Both are contracted through to the end of 23 so with Brisbane probably still smarting from Powers tough stance I could see them wanting overs and when you consider that neither of them have yet displayed the sort of form to warrant a high value.
We might consider going after one of them but pairing them up might be difficult.

As you say Lohmann is a small forward who is good overhead but he would be similar but not as good as Weightman. Do we need a more crumbing forward type?
Robertson is starved for midfield chances but hasn't quite shown enough when deployed in other positions.

I like them both but I suspect Brisbane will demand a lot for them.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

With Kai Lohmann and Dev Robertson both unsigned at the Lions, would it be worth having a crack at both?
Small forward who is really good overhead for his size, and a guy who can legitimately transfer to inside mid given a bit more time.
Both are young so have plenty of football & development left.

We keep our first for an outside mid/wing type and look at KPD depth (subject to Croft's position at AFL level) and we'd be looking far more balanced.

Lohmann, yes. I think it happens.

Mike previously suggested Dev stays or goes back to Perth from memory.

[Mofra]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Either player could have potentially been used as part of the Dunkley deal and Brisbane passed on that option.

Brisbane wanted to keep them, and they were both in contract. We had no other options here.

Both are contracted through to the end of 23 so with Brisbane probably still smarting from Powers tough stance I could see them wanting overs and when you consider that neither of them have yet displayed the sort of form to warrant a high value.
We might consider going after one of them but pairing them up might be difficult.

As you say Lohmann is a small forward who is good overhead but he would be similar but not as good as Weightman. Do we need a more crumbing forward type?
Robertson is starved for midfield chances but hasn't quite shown enough when deployed in other positions.

I like them both but I suspect Brisbane will demand a lot for them.

Lohman is a bit ore crumbing than Weightman though who plays more as a genuine mid-sizer
TBH I think Robertson plays in front of most of our HF types and has more midfield scope than any of them, even Garcia

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Brisbane wanted to keep them, and they were both in contract. We had no other options here.

That's my point, given they are contracted to the end of 23 I can't see they will be in a hurry to move them on unless someone pays more than they probably should.

[hujsh]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

It's such a hard call but I'd probably pass on getting both of them as a pair.
Either player could have potentially been used as part of the Dunkley deal and Brisbane passed on that option.
Both are contracted through to the end of 23 so with Brisbane probably still smarting from Powers tough stance I could see them wanting overs and when you consider that neither of them have yet displayed the sort of form to warrant a high value.
We might consider going after one of them but pairing them up might be difficult.

As you say Lohmann is a small forward who is good overhead but he would be similar but not as good as Weightman. Do we need a more crumbing forward type?
Robertson is starved for midfield chances but hasn't quite shown enough when deployed in other positions.

I like them both but I suspect Brisbane will demand a lot for them.

Shouldn't be. They got him cheap and they know it

[Mofra]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

That's my point, given they are contracted to the end of 23 I can't see they will be in a hurry to move them on unless someone pays more than they probably should.

I don't think Brisbane will have a choice, they're OOC. I suspect both will want out at the end of the year for more opportunity.
WCE have been linked to Dev, but AFL media also reporting a number of Vic clubs are interested

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I don't think Brisbane will have a choice, they're OOC. I suspect both will want out at the end of the year for more opportunity.
WCE have been linked to Dev, but AFL media also reporting a number of Vic clubs are interested

I guess so but they've clearly backed themselves to keep them. Lohmann holding off contact talks is a good sign he wants to look for playing opportunities. Would he get them with us?

Robertson must see some huge advantages in going home and getting opportunities with West Coast.

[hujsh]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I guess so but they've clearly backed themselves to keep them. Lohmann holding off contact talks is a good sign he wants to look for playing opportunities. Would he get them with us?

Robertson must see some huge advantages in going home and getting opportunities with West Coast.

There's 1 or two spots for a player with pace who can contribute on the stats sheet outside of pressure acts. Much as we love Arty and (to a lesser extent) McNeil outside of the pressure they aren't contributing a great deal.

Does Lohman do that? Or is he more a winger?

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

There's 1 or two spots for a player with pace who can contribute on the stats sheet outside of pressure acts. Much as we love Arty and (to a lesser extent) McNeil outside of the pressure they aren't contributing a great deal.

Does Lohman do that? Or is he more a winger?

I think Mofra summed him up well in that he is a half forward who takes a decent mark for his size. I'd prefer a more ground level type player as I think Lohmann might be similar to Weightman but he could still be a handy player for us to target.

[hujsh]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Lohman is a bit ore crumbing than Weightman though who plays more as a genuine mid-sizer
TBH I think Robertson plays in front of most of our HF types and has more midfield scope than any of them, even Garcia

I think Mofra summed him up well in that he is a half forward who takes a decent mark for his size. I'd prefer a more ground level type player as I think Lohmann might be similar to Weightman but he could still be a handy player for us to target.

Brisbane's profile of him

He can take a big pack mark and is just as deadly doing his work at ground level as a crumbing forward.

Sounds like he's pretty competent at ground level. For me it sounds like the remaining question is his pressure.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Lohmann with 17 touches, 8 tackles, 5 marks and two goals - in a four point win.

Handy small forward.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Lets have a look at back line from a list management perspective

Backs:
Talls - L.Jones, Keath, Bruce, Gardner, O'Brien, Darcy*, Busslinger, Raak* and O'Donnell.
Mids - Duryea, Johannisen, Dale*, Richards, Daniel*, Crozier, Vandermeer*, Cleary and Gallagher.
* Versatile players who can be used in other positions. I've deemed Bruce and Gallagher as specialist defenders for the time being. Raak is listed as a defender but has played forward.

That's 18 players primariliy allocated to defensive positions and remembering that Naughton and Khamis were also drafted as defenders and could be pushed back only if really needed.

The age profile isn't kind to our defenders and there are question marks on the form of a few of them.

From a KP perspective Gardner shapes as an important player over the longer term and we need to keep developing Busslinger and O'Donnell to ensure we have some depth. I think Darcy is more of a forward and a likely replacement for Lobb in the years to come but he has shown a great level of versatility and could end up being in our defensive KP plans in the short term.
Keath could be a departure at the seasons end and I suspect it's one years deals for Bruce and going forward and for O'Brien it will all depend on who we draft and trade for if he is offered a one year deal as a back-up.

For the more mid sized players Duryea and Crozier are out of contract at the end of the season and there could be a case made for Duryea to another deal but vastly harder for Crozier.
Vandermeer needs some luck on the injury front but could be expendable and JJ's fountain of youth season should mean he will get another deal. The rest of the mid sized defenders should all be good to go next season.

So based on what we know now I'd say Keath, Raak, Crozier and Duryea are likely departures unless they really finish off the season strongly. O'Brien might be in the mix as well but it could be a choice between Keath and TOB.

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Lets have a look at back line from a list management perspective

Backs:
Talls - L.Jones, Keath, Bruce, Gardner, O'Brien, Darcy*, Busslinger, Raak* and O'Donnell.
Mids - Duryea, Johannisen, Dale*, Richards, Daniel*, Crozier, Vandermeer*, Cleary and Gallagher.
* Versatile players who can be used in other positions. I've deemed Bruce and Gallagher as specialist defenders for the time being. Raak is listed as a defender but has played forward.

That's 18 players primariliy allocated to defensive positions and remembering that Naughton and Khamis were also drafted as defenders and could be pushed back only if really needed.

The age profile isn't kind to our defenders and there are question marks on the form of a few of them.

From a KP perspective Gardner shapes as an important player over the longer term and we need to keep developing Busslinger and O'Donnell to ensure we have some depth. I think Darcy is more of a forward and a likely replacement for Lobb in the years to come but he has shown a great level of versatility and could end up being in our defensive KP plans in the short term.
Keath could be a departure at the seasons end and I suspect it's one years deals for Bruce and going forward and for O'Brien it will all depend on who we draft and trade for if he is offered a one year deal as a back-up.

For the more mid sized players Duryea and Crozier are out of contract at the end of the season and there could be a case made for Duryea to another deal but vastly harder for Crozier.
Vandermeer needs some luck on the injury front but could be expendable and JJ's fountain of youth season should mean he will get another deal. The rest of the mid sized defenders should all be good to go next season.

So based on what we know now I'd say Keath, Raak, Crozier and Duryea are likely departures unless they really finish off the season strongly. O'Brien might be in the mix as well but it could be a choice between Keath and TOB.

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

I’m hoping there’s a defender on our trade/free agent target list. I made a left field call last year for Ethan Phillips, and think I read Mof suggest him for the MSD. The age profile of the defenders ain’t great, so I’d look at Phillips and look at everyone who isn’t contracted closely down back.

Buss is a longer term option, O’Donnell is unknown. Keath sounds cooked, Duryea, Bruce & Jones are getting on. Gardner isn’t the main man. So another option like Phillips could help with a trade/free agent.

Right now id suggest Duryea, Keath & Crozier are close to as good as gone. Raak is only a Cat B. Khamis might have to go back if Croft is a forward. Darcy is a forward/ruck according to Bevo. TOB has a body perhaps not made for AFEL.

A high pick for a trade mid, our second for Lohmann and a trade/FA defender would be ideal with a top draftee and Croft and other picks. Defence has to be firmly on Power’s mind.

[azabob]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Lets have a look at back line from a list management perspective

Backs:
Talls - L.Jones, Keath, Bruce, Gardner, O'Brien, Darcy*, Busslinger, Raak* and O'Donnell.
Mids - Duryea, Johannisen, Dale*, Richards, Daniel*, Crozier, Vandermeer*, Cleary and Gallagher.
* Versatile players who can be used in other positions. I've deemed Bruce and Gallagher as specialist defenders for the time being. Raak is listed as a defender but has played forward.

.

From a numbers perspective we appear well stocked but as you have shown if you dig a bit deeper we are quite light on especially in our key defensive posts from and age profile. All of our key defenders have had injuries this year and or not a great track record of playing 17+ games a year. Jones missing all of 2022 I wouldn't be surprised if he is managed somewhat through the season. Other than Gardner it is fair to say come 2025 only Jones will still be on the list and this is due to contractual obligations.

We have addressed the key position stocks somewhat with Busslinger and O'Donnell who are both unproven but very early on are showing limited glimpses. The club must be adamant that Darcy is a ruck/forward only as he would be perfect to start grooming as a key defender much like Geelong did with De Koning.

Our midsized and lockdown defenders are also a concern; I'm a huge Duyrea fan and have been since day one but we really need Cleary or Gallagher to push him out by seasons end. It is a shame that Khamas and Raak lack that bit of pace to become a mid size lockdown defender.

The development of Richards over the past two years has been remarkable and his ability to blend defense and attack is quite impressive. Ironically we did try and make him a wingman after his breakout year as a HB flanker (pre 2022).

How do we fix it? I would not spend up big on a free agent or use a top 30 draft pick on a key defender. Clubs like Adelaide and GWS have shown repeatedly you can find meat and potato talls in the pick 30's and beyond. For our key defenders I would be heavily scouting the state league comps. Ideally we have a key defender circled and highlighted for the upcoming midseason draft and monitoring 1 or 2 more.
Mid sized defenders who can lock down should be an easier find and put a strategy in place to select them via the national draft.

I wouldn't be trading any of our draft capital this year and I would be very wary on spending too much capital on young Croft unless we see his future as a key defender.

My strategy is to hit the draft and hit the draft hard. Four picks inside the top 30 with a midfield focus and then widen our search to key defenders and ruckman.

[ledge]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I think our defence is ok , it’s more how the opposition break in the middle.
No matter how good your defence is you can’t stop a mid running through the middle with all the time in the world to hit a forward on the chest. That’s more our problem.