2023 List Management Thread

[Bornadog]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I've been questioning the need for Croft since mid way through the season when it became apparent he would be first round selection.

We already have 3 young key forwards and our list profile from age is perspective is not in a great space compared to our onfield results.

You need to look into the future when we don't have a Lobb, Keath, Jones.

Darcy and Croft will take a few years to mature before they really start to contribute.

We would be crazy not to take a pick 6 and pick 15 (or so)

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I can't see that happening other than the odd cameos.
Replacing his almost 2 goals a game would be a huge challenge as well.

What about the 5 he misses though?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Moving up to pick 4 would be great but it's unfortunately not the greatest draft for us. It's very shallow on midfield talent. Next year's is supposedly loaded with midfielders. Will we look to trade in some future firsts for next year?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

This is what concerns me. I agree with the approach generally speaking, but given our list needs after taking the likes of Naughton/Marra/Darcy/Busslinger, I'm not sure using another first rounder on a KPP is what we need.

Hypothetically if Croft was on the open market (not F/S) and we had Pick 10-15 (whilst also having an earlier pick) would we take him? I have my doubts.

We'd want to be really confident that Croft can be a star KPP to do it. More to that, we'd want to be confident he can be a star KPD because he's unlikely to dislodge Naughton, Marra or Darcy from the forward half of the ground.

It's a good point. The other consideration is that we get Croft at a discount so it's not completely an open market for us with him.

It's an interesting one. If he was in next year's draft I wouldn't be taking him with all the midfield options available. But this year's draft is a different story. There unfortunately aren't a heap of available midfield talents. Even with picks 10-17 we're in highly speculative territory.

[azabob]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

You need to look into the future when we don't have a Lobb, Keath, Jones.

Darcy and Croft will take a few years to mature before they really start to contribute.

We would be crazy not to take a pick 6 and pick 15 (or so)

I'm not sure Keath and Jones are relevant to this discussion unless the club sees one of Croft, Darcy, JHU or Naughton going back. If that is the case then yep lets grab Croft.

[MrMahatma]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

You need to look into the future when we don't have a Lobb, Keath, Jones.

Darcy and Croft will take a few years to mature before they really start to contribute.

We would be crazy not to take a pick 6 and pick 15 (or so)

It's also that we COULD get a top end talent (by trading our picks) and still get another first round pick by using later picks.

I know it's not that simple, but surely the likelihood of getting a GUN player is much higher at pick 6 than at pick 19... or in the 2nd round. There's no guarantees but you gotta play the odds and moving to the pointy end of the draft and still getting Croft seems the smart move to me. Alternatively we're picking 2 players quite a bit later than pick 6. Granted they would most likely both be more aligned to current needs, but also less likely to be a very good player.

While we're lucky at this stage, there aren't THAT many 200cm mobile key forwards running around the AFL.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I'm not sure Keath and Jones are relevant to this discussion unless the club sees one of Croft, Darcy, JHU or Naughton going back. If that is the case then yep lets grab Croft.

Of course it's relevant. Darcy may end up rucking, Naughton may push back in a few years when Marra is burning it up at FF, Croft may end up in the backline, or Darcy in the backline.

Mobile 200cm athletic players are rare in the AFL, it just happens we have plenty

[Rocket Science]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

You need to look into the future when we don't have a Lobb, Keath ...

[Dogs 24/7]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

So last year we we traded for Lobb and got Jones as a freebie. We then added just 3 players at the national draft. Of course we then added Baker and Poulter and tacked-on ODonnell.
If we only add another 3 or 4 at the national draft are we doing enough now to cover the the eventual loss of Jones, Keath, Treloar, Liberatore and there were some worrying signs with Macrae this year?

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

So last year we we traded for Lobb and got Jones as a freebie. We then added just 3 players at the national draft. Of course we then added Baker and Poulter and tacked-on ODonnell.
If we only add another 3 or 4 at the national draft are we doing enough now to cover the the eventual loss of Jones, Keath, Treloar, Liberatore and there were some worrying signs with Macrae this year?

. Might be 2.
Its a good question.

[Dogs 24/7]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

What about the 5 he misses though?

Good point but is his fielding kicking going to be another issue in the back line?

[Dogs 24/7]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

. Might be 2.
Its a good question.

Im trying to be optimistic

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

So last year we we traded for Lobb and got Jones as a freebie. We then added just 3 players at the national draft. Of course we then added Baker and Poulter and tacked-on ODonnell.
If we only add another 3 or 4 at the national draft are we doing enough now to cover the the eventual loss of Jones, Keath, Treloar, Liberatore and there were some worrying signs with Macrae this year?

The issue with our list management approach that seems to get lost in the discussion is that we aren't selecting enough players via the National Draft and we are adding more short term solutions via the rookie list and Cat B options.

2017 - Naughton, Richards and Porter* via the National Draft
Crozier?, Schache*, Trengove* and Gowers* via other trade and rookie draft options

2018 - Smith, West, Vandermeer, Cavarra* and Hayes* via the National Draft
Duryea?, Lloyd*, Gardner, Khamis?, Young* and Sweet* via other trade and rookie draft options

2019 - Weightman, Butler* and Garcia via the National Draft
Bruce* and Keath via trades

2020 - Ugle-Hagan and Bedendo? via the National Draft
Hannan*, Martin*, Treloar, McNeil and Scott via other trade and rookie draft options

2021 - Darcy, Jones and Cleary via the National Draft
O'Brien*, Raak*, Parker* and McComb* via other trade and rookie draft options

2022 - Busslinger, Clarke and Gallagher via the National Draft
Lobb, Jones, O'Donnell, Baker and Poulter via other trade and rookie draft options

2023 - We have flagged between 2 and 4 players to be selected at the National Draft.

Yes we have had to get some NGA and father son picks through the door but at some point, and it won't be this year, we will need to go a bit heavier via the National Draft.

[azabob]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

The issue with our list management approach that seems to get lost in the discussion is that we aren't selecting enough players via the National Draft and we are adding more short term solutions via the rookie list and Cat B options.

2017 - Naughton, Richards and Porter* via the National Draft
Crozier?, Schache*, Trengove* and Gowers* via other trade and rookie draft options

2018 - Smith, West, Vandermeer, Cavarra* and Hayes* via the National Draft
Duryea?, Lloyd*, Gardner, Khamis?, Young* and Sweet* via other trade and rookie draft options

2019 - Weightman, Butler* and Garcia via the National Draft
Bruce* and Keath via trades

2020 - Ugle-Hagan and Bedendo? via the National Draft
Hannan*, Martin*, Treloar, McNeil and Scott via other trade and rookie draft options

2021 - Darcy, Jones and Cleary via the National Draft
O'Brien*, Raak*, Parker* and McComb* via other trade and rookie draft options

2022 - Busslinger, Clarke and Gallagher via the National Draft
Lobb, Jones, O'Donnell, Baker and Poulter via other trade and rookie draft options

2023 - We have flagged between 2 and 4 players to be selected at the National Draft.

Yes we have had to get some NGA and father son picks through the door but at some point, and it won't be this year, we will need to go a bit heavier via the National Draft.

Thank you for posting this. Reading it in black and white is fairly stark reading.

Excluding 2022 as it is too early to tell; 13 out of 21 non national draft picks have not worked.

I don't think we have a choice but to take four players in this years national draft.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

We've basically swung for the fences with high draft picks and then hoped for the best with rookie picks or fringe trades. It hasn't exactly worked. However St kilda is an example where rookie or fringe picks have worked in their favour. Is it luck of the draw or smarter recruiting? We've really failed to nail the obscure picks since Dalrymple left.