2023 List Management Thread

[Rocket Science]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Isn't that why we drafted Gallagher?
We're probably going Lual slips to 40 as well

I am once again asking the Bulldog faithful to think of the game's most dangerous small forwards then envisage tasking anyone not named Duryea with keeping them quiet, let alone Duryea himself.

[hujsh]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I am once again asking the Bulldog faithful to think of the game's most dangerous small forwards then envisage tasking anyone not named Duryea with keeping them quiet, let alone Duryea himself.

What's Tim Callan up to?

[mjp]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I hope in a few weeks things look a lot better. But right now, I?m genuinely concerned about us sleep walking off a cliff. Obviously I hope I?m dead wrong. But I?m really struggling with what we are trying to do on and off field.

I don't think it's as bad as that.

What am I most concerned about RIGHT NOW:
1/. Putting a head of footy in place.
- Issue: Seems like this is not on the agenda and we will continue to manage things directly through the Director. I don't like this plan.

2/. Need a new head of high performance.
- Issue: Umm - no news is good news??

3/. Moving AHEAD of any likely bid for Croft in the national draft.
- Issue: Early days we seemed solely focussed on paying for the GC pick 4 (5??) when there seemed no guarantee of what players would be available...this seems a bit better now with talk of maybe pick 7 etc...then there's the small matter of no commitment from the player...

4/. Need to recruit either 2 or 3 assistant coaches.
- Issue: Maybe no issue? I don't know.

5/. Retaining of/recruitment of players who are 28+ but NOT in our best 8-10 OR filling a unique role.
- Issue: We don't seem to understand this...our oldest players should be:
a). In our best and guaranteed, walk-up starts. Liam Jones is a good example of this. He's old but he's good. Think of Pendlebury and Sidebottom for the Pies.
b). Fill a unique, unable to plug hole in our side. Stef Martin was a 'semi' good example of this. Old but plays a specific role. Think of Mason Cox at Collingwood. I GUESS you could classify Duryea in this way if you were being particularly generous.

Our to-do list isn't exhaustive, but it would be nice to see a couple of things ticked off...

[azabob]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I don't think it's as bad as that.

Our to-do list isn't exhaustive, but it would be nice to see a couple of things ticked off...

It isn't an exhaustive list but gee whiz 1, 2 and 4 are pretty damn important.

I find it hard to believe we didn't know at some point during the year that Inness, Smith and Webb would not be in their roles in 2024.

Unless we are going to announce three replacements from either Collingwood or Brisbane next week I'd love to know what exactly we have been doing.

Its easy to be forgiving and its easy to be harsh on the club as we are hearing nothing at all.

Honestly the way we performed on field and performed off field as a footy department in 2023 makes me question things a lot, lot more than I have previously.

I trusted the club was making the right decisions between 2015 and 2021, now I'm not so sure.

[hujsh]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

It isn't an exhaustive list but gee whiz 1, 2 and 4 are pretty damn important.

I find it hard to believe we didn't know at some point during the year that Inness, Smith and Webb would not be in their roles in 2024.

Unless we are going to announce three replacements from either Collingwood or Brisbane next week I'd love to know what exactly we have been doing.

Its easy to be forgiving and its easy to be harsh on the club as we are hearing nothing at all.

Honestly the way we performed on field and performed off field as a footy department in 2023 makes me question things a lot, lot more than I have previously.

I trusted the club was making the right decisions between 2015 and 2021, now I'm not so sure.

Yeah more and more I'm convinced the sack Bevo club will be bitterly disappointed if they they get their wish as the confidence I have in the people doing the replacing is lower than what I have in Bevo. We've really struggled off field dealing with cap reductions, retaining talent and identifying replacements for those we've lost/let go. More and more gets put onto Bevo to make up for this. Is it Grant's failure?

[azabob]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Yeah more and more I'm convinced the sack Bevo club will be bitterly disappointed if they they get their wish as the confidence I have in the people doing the replacing is lower than what I have in Bevo. We've really struggled off field dealing with cap reductions, retaining talent and identifying replacements for those we've lost/let go. More and more gets put onto Bevo to make up for this. Is it Grant's failure?

I said a while ago for mine the order of responsibility is Grant, Beveridge, Power. There appear to be a number of burning platforms at the moment and EW isn't anywhere in sight to put them out.

Some might argue that Baines is head of the tree but from a commercial sense off field we are humming.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

We are going to have to need it. It?s one thing to say let?s have depth (Keath) or there?s no one else (Duryea). But their age isn?t a surprise, how have we allowed ourselves to get the point where the best option is keeping clearly cooked footballers for longer than they should be?

If Keath is going to keep being the outlet kicker from defence, we are screwed. If Duryea wants to keep breaking tackles that he can?t anymore, then we are in trouble. The argument for re-signing them is very different to the argument of what the hell he?ll have we been doing with our list such that it?s the least worst option?

That we have not cut Crozier and allowed him the freedom to go to any club with DFA status is concerning. Being a good club man and taking up a spot next year again are different things.

I have a fear the list (less fringe players who don?t play seniors anyway, Sweet etc) will look much the same, the key footy off field appointments will be the same and our strategy is genuinely to tinker and ?hope? for different results. Hope is a good thing (rebellions are built on it) but it?s not really doing it for me.

For a more fulsome explanation. I think we are in genuine no man?s land. If we are apparently a potential top 4 team with tinkering, then go sell our picks for players and win a flag. If we need to rebuild. Then do it properly. I fear that if we merely tinker and in 12 months time we haven?t seen some vast improvement, we will have missed 12 months of rebuilding and wasted another season if our aging stars such that they might not be around for the next tilt. If we go backward next year, well then clearly the club needs to cleaned out completely for failing to see need for real change. Add to that we will try to sign all our bigger name players to whatever price and we are copying the Collingwood playbook that saw them implode.

I hope in a few weeks things look a lot better. But right now, I?m genuinely concerned about us sleep walking off a cliff. Obviously I hope I?m dead wrong. But I?m really struggling with what we are trying to do on and off field.

I'm with you. Whilst I don't want us to go full rebuild or go full sell the farm, I think we need to be realistic about what we have and what we are doing to address what we don't. Maybe we don't need to fill all needs, but filling some big ones will go a long way to a top 4 flag tilt.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I said a while ago for mine the order of responsibility is Grant, Beveridge, Power. There appear to be a number of burning platforms at the moment and EW isn't anywhere in site to put them out.

Some might argue that Baines is head of the tree but from a commercial sense off field we are humming.

Bains has done a very good job all things considered, criticism of him seems a bit opportunistic and not so much based on anything else other than he is the top dog. Grant has a bit to answer to but he appears to be shaking the tree and we have to give him a chance to reshape the footy department. Bevo starts the year as the coach and will have to get us back on track.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Watching the way Collingwood and Brisbane went about it today highlights some gaps in our playing list.
Collingwood have terrific pace around the ground and get a lot from their experienced and role players
Brisbane are so versatile and have a heap of players they can rotate through the middle.

Whereas we saw some experienced players like Duryea, Keath and Macrae decline a bit this year and rotated minimal numbers of players through the middle leaving too much to too few.

With it being likely that minimal players will come through via the draft, improvement will have to be via player development.
We seem to be a fair way off Collingwood and Brisbane although we pushed Collingwood and beat Brisbane during the season.
We need a lot of improvement to come from the likes of West, VDM, McNeil, Garcia, Arty Jones and JOD and we need to find a role for Macrae so we can get a bit more out of him.

[Scraggers]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Watching the way Collingwood and Brisbane went about it today highlights some gaps in our playing list.
Collingwood have terrific pace around the ground and get a lot from their experienced and role players
Brisbane are so versatile and have a heap of players they can rotate through the middle.

Whereas we saw some experienced players like Duryea, Keath and Macrae decline a bit this year and rotated minimal numbers of players through the middle leaving too much to too few.

With it being likely that minimal players will come through via the draft, improvement will have to be via player development.
We seem to be a fair way off Collingwood and Brisbane although we pushed Collingwood and beat Brisbane during the season.
We need a lot of improvement to come from the likes of West, VDM, McNeil, Garcia, Arty Jones and JOD and we need to find a role for Macrae so we can get a bit more out of him.

For me it was the role players. We have a team of champions, Collingwood have a champion team. Watching Hoskin-Elliott and Markov (for example) doing exactly what they were drafted to do. On their own, very average players; but played their roles to a tee. This is where our depth is really lacking. We don’t have bit players

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

For me it was the role players. We have a team of champions, Collingwood have a champion team. Watching Hoskin-Elliott and Markov (for example) doing exactly what they were drafted to do. On their own, very average players; but played their roles to a tee. This is where our depth is really lacking. We don’t have bit players

We are the polar opposite to our 2016 side. Somehow the same coach is overseeing both eras.

Ive said to a number of pies fans that their current squad reminds me a lot of our 2016 group.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

We should be in John Noble's ear.

[jeemak]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

We should be in John Noble's ear.

Are you thinking as a Duryea replacement?

[G-Mo77]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Are you thinking as a Duryea replacement?

Why replace him when we sign him again.

[Bigdog]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

We need to be more respectful of the half forward role next year. We don’t play any genuine half forwards. We play undersized midfielders in those roles that we don’t trust at centre bounces. The Half forward role has become so important. We need to find x2 of these with maniac pressure, speed and clean enough skills to link up. I don’t even care if they hit the scoreboard.

If we go in next year and Macrae/McNeil/Scott/Baker are filling those roles for significant periods it will tell me a lot.

Currently the only player that I have faith that can play that role is VDM and he can’t get any continuity with his body. His skills also aren’t brilliant, but I’d be prepared to take the good with the bad.

The others that could potentially play a role internally are:

Garcia - Has reasonable burst speed, but I’m not sure how quick he’d be over a distance. Also his foot skills are pretty average.

Bendendo - Not sure he has the work rate or the aggression. Might not even be on the list next season given his not signed?

Khamis - He would need to reshape the way he plays but I liked his pressure and what he did at ground level in the Box Hill Final (at least in the first quarter). The question mark is work ethic and fitness.

IMO this is the only way Khamis can make it as a footballer, he is to undersized to play key position. He would need to have the preseason of his life to get in the required shape. And again not sure he will be at the club next year.

Arty Jones - Needs to find more of the ball, potentially he doesn’t know the role. Looks to have the physical traits. Hopefully he has a big pre season (Anyone know if his shoulder surgery will delay his start?)

We would absolutely love Mcreery.

The other major holes are the wings and a lockdown defender. I hope Gallagher plays early next year.