2023 List Management Thread

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

We need to be more respectful of the half forward role next year. We don’t play any genuine half forwards. We play undersized midfielders in those roles that we don’t trust at centre bounces. The Half forward role has become so important. We need to find x2 of these with maniac pressure, speed and clean enough skills to link up. I don’t even care if they hit the scoreboard.

If we go in next year and Macrae/McNeil/Scott/Baker are filling those roles for significant periods it will tell me a lot.

Currently the only player that I have faith that can play that role is VDM and he can’t get any continuity with his body. His skills also aren’t brilliant, but I’d be prepared to take the good with the bad.

The others that could potentially play a role internally are:

Garcia - Has reasonable burst speed, but I’m not sure how quick he’d be over a distance. Also his foot skills are pretty average.

Bendendo - Not sure he has the work rate or the aggression. Might not even be on the list next season given his not signed?

Khamis - He would need to reshape the way he plays but I liked his pressure and what he did at ground level in the Box Hill Final (at least in the first quarter). The question mark is work ethic and fitness.

IMO this is the only way Khamis can make it as a footballer, he is to undersized to play key position. He would need to have the preseason of his life to get in the required shape. And again not sure he will be at the club next year.

Arty Jones - Needs to find more of the ball, potentially he doesn’t know the role. Looks to have the physical traits. Hopefully he has a big pre season (Anyone know if his shoulder surgery will delay his start?)

We would absolutely love Mcreery.

The other major holes are the wings and a lockdown defender. I hope Gallagher plays early next year.

VDM needs to develop game awarenesss and improved ball handling.

Garcia and Benendo need to stay on the park. Not much future spending most of your time in rehab.

Khamis doesn't show the pace to be a ground level player.

Arty Jones has pace but he needs to find the ball. If he can't learn to get it he has very little future. Perhaps it is on the coaches to teach him where to run.

[kruder]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

For me it was the role players. We have a team of champions, Collingwood have a champion team. Watching Hoskin-Elliott and Markov (for example) doing exactly what they were drafted to do. On their own, very average players; but played their roles to a tee. This is where our depth is really lacking. We don?t have bit players

I think you will find when we get everything going in the same direction on and off the field the role players all of sudden start playing their roles. We will find out very early next year if Bains, Grant and Bevo have changed enough in the off season for this to happen.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Naughton's manager says no way he is going anywhere. Gets lots of calls from clubs but Naughton keen to play on next year at Dogs. Owns a home in Port Melbourne and well settled in.

[Mofra]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Naughton's manager says no way he is going anywhere. Gets lots of calls from clubs but Naughton keen to play on next year at Dogs. Owns a home in Port Melbourne and well settled in.

And, by rumour is our second highest paid player after Bont

[Mofra]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Interesting that James Borlace is on the table. 192cm intercept defender for Adelaide, been a slow burn but can kick the ball well (at least he does at SANFL level and in his 1 AFL game)
Would fill a need, cheaply.

[Boots]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

So, there's a bit flying around about a few of our stars. Recent experience (Dunkley) seems to have a lot of people (including me) worried about recent public utterances by the management of Naughton, English and Smith.

Assuming that next year rather than this year is the year it all goes down, there seem to be a few scenarios:

Lose one:
- Smith - Seems quite likely to leave. I think we can cover this onfield in the short term but it exposes our badly ageing (midfield) and poorly balanced (wings) list profile. Makes the loss of Lipinski and Dunks look extra poor.
- Naughton - Edited from my original comment, see MJP's post below. Seems the most unlikely but fairly devastating to the forward line. Hard to cover without putting a lot more on Marra, Darcy and Lobb's shoulders, Especially bad for defensive efforts in the forward line
- English - Feels like he's seriously looking at other clubs next year. This feels like the worst of the three 'lose one' options. He's a fairly decent ruck but his ability to play forward and back (kick-ins aside) is impossible to cover alongside his rucking. Serious structural issues if he leaves. Puts stress on Lobb (who might handle it poorly) and Darcy (still developing) and the backline (mostly duct tape at the point anyway).

Lose two (edited given MJP's stats below):
- Naughton and Smith - unlikely, but I still think it's the least devastating of the 'lose two' options but only because English plays across all three lines in a way SMith and Naughton don't. But it's not good.
- English and Smith - this feels like the most likely 'lose two' scenario, and it's a bad one. I feel like Smith is already gone, and English feels like he's seriously looking. Structurally worse than losing either individually as it exposes all three lines and the wings. Puts the majority of game-breaking stress on key developing, ageing, or middling players (Lobb, Darcy, Baker, Poulter, Bont & Libba)
- Naughton and English - fairly unlikely, but probably the worst case. Lobb and Darcy can't be both in the forward line and in the ruck while kicking 50 extra goals a year.

Losing all three is a nightmare scenario and puts us right back into rebuild territory. I don't even want to consider it. Say goodbye to a second Bont flag if that happens.

[mjp]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

- Naughton - Unlikely, he seems the most likely to stay. Bad but not the end. He's worth 20-30 goals a year, and struggles with forward craft. He seems to make the other forwards play worse about as often as he helps things. Not great, a serious dent in our list, but we could likely handle it with other talls (Darcy, Lobb).

He's kicked 47 and 51 the last two years. That's not 20-30. On top of that he was second in the team to Bont with goal assists - Bont had 24, Aaron had 22. As a club we only had 193 - so those two had nearly 25% of our goal assists between them. Jamarra had 14. Macrae is the only other current player to appear in our 'all time top seasons' list re- this stat...he had 13.

Forward pressure? He laid 59 tackles. Weightman laid 52. Jamarra just 22.

"We could cover it"?????

The narrative we have as supporters about this player is simply wrong.

[Boots]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

He's kicked 47 and 51 the last two years. That's not 20-30. On top of that he was second in the team to Bont with goal assists - Bont had 24, Aaron had 22. As a club we only had 193 - so those two had nearly 25% of our goal assists between them. Jamarra had 14. Macrae is the only other current player to appear in our 'all time top seasons' list re- this stat...he had 13.

Forward pressure? He laid 59 tackles. Weightman laid 52. Jamarra just 22.

"We could cover it"?????

The narrative we have as supporters about this player is simply wrong.

Thanks for these stats. I am a big fan of correcting my poor assumptions and you’ve provided a few key stats I was totally unaware of (as well as correcting one I had clearly totally underestimated). Happy to admit I’m one of the ones with the wrong narrative, I’m especially prone to hating on his misses and seem to have let that sink in. I’m going to make the effort to think about him differently.

I’m going to edit my post to correct the error, noting the original text will survive in your quote, because I’m interested in the discussion not being sidetracked by inaccuracy.

I still feel like he’s the least likely to leave though?

[Bornadog]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

He's kicked 47 and 51 the last two years. That's not 20-30. On top of that he was second in the team to Bont with goal assists - Bont had 24, Aaron had 22. As a club we only had 193 - so those two had nearly 25% of our goal assists between them. Jamarra had 14. Macrae is the only other current player to appear in our 'all time top seasons' list re- this stat...he had 13.

Forward pressure? He laid 59 tackles. Weightman laid 52. Jamarra just 22.

"We could cover it"?????

The narrative we have as supporters about this player is simply wrong.

Those tackles were in the top 10 of total AFL tackles inside 50. No other big bloke anywhere near that.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Thanks Boots, there is a bit to consider.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

If Naughton left, I'd be about done with this club.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Thanks for these stats. I am a big fan of correcting my poor assumptions and you’ve provided a few key stats I was totally unaware of (as well as correcting one I had clearly totally underestimated). Happy to admit I’m one of the ones with the wrong narrative, I’m especially prone to hating on his misses and seem to have let that sink in. I’m going to make the effort to think about him differently.

I’m going to edit my post to correct the error, noting the original text will survive in your quote, because I’m interested in the discussion not being sidetracked by inaccuracy.

I still feel like he’s the least likely to leave though?

That's not how you post Boots. You're supposed to be controversial and argumentative! All this sense and logic has no place here

MJP is right, Naughton is a star. Defender.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

That's not how you post Boots. You're supposed to be controversial and argumentative! All this sense and logic has no place here

MJP is right, Naughton is a star. Defender.

MJP never said defender

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

MJP never said defender

Must've been chef!

[Bornadog]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Must've been chef!

Oh, yes it was too.