2024 List Management Thread

[JanLorMill]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

Collingwood had Cameron ready to step into the number 1 ruck role, and Cox as a very good back up.

And we will have Darcy. Cameron was a nobody til Grundy got injured in 2022. If you class Lobb as a tall forward then Cox is too.
The point is Collingwood in the long run were a better side not having to pay for $1M ruck.

[hujsh]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

In an earlier post I said rucks of that calibre would cost an arm and a leg given in most people's eyes they're not that far behind what we have with English, and we'd be likely aiming for someone in the next rung beyond that, which to me likely sits in the $750K-$850K bracket (after salary cap increases and the market for top rucks being bumped up by a massive deal for English).

Again, hard disagree that these are actually related. It's like comparing the market for houses in Toorak with Frankston.

And I don't agree that you can get a "fine" ruck to do the job, particularly with our current coach who wouldn't play an AA ruck already on the list due to his inability to do anything than ruck around the contest.

Well there wouldn't really be another option for him would there? It's either get a guy that is mature and can compete enough that we don't lose badly in the ruck (an upgrade on what we've got from English pre-21), or repurpose Lobb into a ruck and let Darcy be the 2nd until someone else is developed/poached.

[Axe Man]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

And we will have Darcy. Cameron was a nobody til Grundy got injured in 2022. If you class Lobb as a tall forward then Cox is too.
The point is Collingwood in the long run were a better side not having to pay for $1M ruck.

The difference is Darcy Cameron was 27/28 when he took over as the number one ruck last season and Sam Darcy will be 21/22 next year. Cameron was ready to shoulder the bulk of the ruck work, Darcy is unlikely to be.

[JanLorMill]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

The difference is Darcy Cameron was 27/28 when he took over as the number one ruck last season and Sam Darcy will be 21/22 next year. Cameron was ready to shoulder the bulk of the ruck work, Darcy is unlikely to be.

Cameron was also a tall forward/backup ruck prior Grundy leaving, yet we need to leave Lobb or Darcy up forward.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

Cameron was also a tall forward/backup ruck prior Grundy leaving, yet we need to leave Lobb or Darcy up forward.

What do you mean? Lobb is our second ruck and plays forward/Ruck. Better than having Bont, Hannan, Dunkley etc chopping out in the ruck

[Jasper]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

And we will have Darcy. Cameron was a nobody til Grundy got injured in 2022. If you class Lobb as a tall forward then Cox is too.
The point is Collingwood in the long run were a better side not having to pay for $1M ruck.

So you think Lobb with support from Darcy could adequately cover English if he was to leave us?
I don't share that view.

[Go_Dogs]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

If we want to keep our best players who are in the top 3 for their position in the game, we have to stump up. Pretty simple I’d have thought. He was the AA ruck, is likely to keep improving and is perfectly suited to the modern game with his skills, running ability and versatility.

What does that mean he’s worth? So hard to know given the dearth of information I’ve seen on salary cap and how that’s going to change over the term of any contract.

He’s probably in that $1-1.1m range on a 5 year deal with some incentives thrown in.

If our group is serious about staying together and winning, he probably doesn’t push for the extra $100k he could command elsewhere but if getting that money is his priority then so be it. We ultimately have to make offers and structure deals that help us win now but also safeguard our future and ability to retain players.

If we’re winning and Tim is playing well, I think we get a deal done. If we struggle in the first half of the year, a little less for team success may not mean as much and someone will be well placed to offer both.

[Happy Days]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

English is good as hell and I would pay to keep him. Who cares where he came in the B&F, is anyone going to seriously argue they would rather Richards or Daniel (really good players btw) over him?

[hujsh]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

If we want to keep our best players who are in the top 3 for their position in the game, we have to stump up. Pretty simple I’d have thought. He was the AA ruck, is likely to keep improving and is perfectly suited to the modern game with his skills, running ability and versatility.

What does that mean he’s worth? So hard to know given the dearth of information I’ve seen on salary cap and how that’s going to change over the term of any contract.

He’s probably in that $1-1.1m range on a 5 year deal with some incentives thrown in.

If our group is serious about staying together and winning, he probably doesn’t push for the extra $100k he could command elsewhere but if getting that money is his priority then so be it. We ultimately have to make offers and structure deals that help us win now but also safeguard our future and ability to retain players.

If we’re winning and Tim is playing well, I think we get a deal done. If we struggle in the first half of the year, a little less for team success may not mean as much and someone will be well placed to offer both.

I'd probably be happy enough if he takes that. In old money it's a bit silly but in the new world it's not terrible. Also in the same way Collingwood managed to improve when letting Grundy go they also managed to win while paying his salary at another club so if he really does fall over in a heap in 2-3 years it's probably recoverable

[JanLorMill]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

So you think Lobb with support from Darcy could adequately cover English if he was to leave us?
I don't share that view.

God forbid English goes down this season then.
English is a good played but having him in ruck doesn’t mean we will have a great season. 2023 proves this. It might help but I’m sure we could cover him and still do well.

[JanLorMill]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

What do you mean? Lobb is our second ruck and plays forward/Ruck. Better than having Bont, Hannan, Dunkley etc chopping out in the ruck

That was in reference to the poster Mofra who inferred we can’t use our tall forwards as full time rucks.
I don't care who rucks if we win the game.

[mjp]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

English is good as hell and I would pay to keep him.

English is a good player but whether you would pay to keep him is dependent on:

1/. What kind of ruckman you want?
2/. How much he wants to stay?
3/. How much oppo clubs are prepared to offer in order to lure him away?

In addition to all of that, there are factors relating to Tim's pending free agency that have nothing to do with footy. He might decide (and I'm not sure why) that he wanted to return to Perth, or play at Essendon because he wants to be part of ANZAC Day type fixtures, or play at Melbourne where he could play more forward time etc.

[mighty_west]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

The main issue now with Timmy i see is that, is he one bad head knock from being finished in the game? No one knows that but has to be an issue. As far as quality goes, you don't get AA and not be good and what is he worth? Well he has to be within the highest paid ruckmen in the game so we need to as a club counter that into making an offer to keep him because we do know clubs will come hard.

How much do we really need him? As a centre square ruckman he's servicable without being great but getting better by the year so i see him having his best season this season as it's just a natural progression like all rucks, as a mighty tall utility he is brilliant around the ground and to me, i see him very much in the Scotty Wynd mould but better, he won't be needed so much up forward now with so many options but could be extremely valuable going back filling holes like Scotty did (at least he won't have that steam train Plugger coming towards him).

Go home factor, not too sure that as much off an issue now with his GF moving to Melbourne? So we have our limit and other clubs will also have to also factor in his concussion issues, you just have to.

Bailey Smith, again, we set our limit and if it's not enough to keep him you simply cannot sell the farm especially with others that will demand big dollars, because one player will never be the difference between winning Premierships, Buddy and Gazza are proof of that and there have been no bigger game players than those two.

[Mofra]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

And we will have Darcy. Cameron was a nobody til Grundy got injured in 2022. If you class Lobb as a tall forward then Cox is too.
The point is Collingwood in the long run were a better side not having to pay for $1M ruck.

A kid that has played a handful of games will suddenly step up against mature bodies and carry our ruck division?

Note: Darcy Cameron played 18 games in 2021 and had a number of pre-seasons under his belt. No way comparable.

There's a word beyond 'optimistic' I'm thinking of.

[JanLorMill]

Re: 2024 List Management Thread

A kid that has played a handful of games will suddenly step up against mature bodies and carry our ruck division?

Note: Darcy Cameron played 18 games in 2021 and had a number of pre-seasons under his belt. No way comparable.

There's a word beyond 'optimistic' I'm thinking of.

And Lobb is too old as well I suppose.
Why is it optimistic? If things go well, Darcy will have more than 18 games by the end of 2024. In terms of talent, Darcy is easily better than Cameron.