AFL targets Essendon Royalty

[LostDoggy]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

I would be p!ssed off if they don't get trade sanctions. Taking away their points for this year doesn't mean much because they would drop out of the finals in the first week anyway ...... plus a large fine would not hurt a club like Essendon.

Draft picks will be damaging though and an appropriate penalty.

[GVGjr]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

I would be p!ssed off if they don't get trade sanctions. Taking away their points for this year doesn't mean much because they would drop out of the finals in the first week anyway ...... plus a large fine would not hurt a club like Essendon.

Draft picks will be damaging though and an appropriate penalty.

I can't believe that 12 months is sufficient band for Hird though. He's now saying he is not guilty for 99% of the charges the AFL presented. At least Bomber had the figure of about 90%.

This was a genuine test of the AFL's resolve and if we are to believe what Stevo and others in the media are preparing us for then the AFL have come up a long way short.

The way they have handled this will do the game more harm than what the supplements saga has.

So this is what we are being few at the moment.
- Hird receives a 12 months suspension but will come straight back to the position he has disgraced.
- The club lose a first round pick for two years in 2013 and 2014.
- The club receives a fine.

Is this really what we have waited for 6 months to hear?

[Scraggers]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Essendon have confirmed that if Hird is suspended he will be paid his full salary.

12 months paid leave, yes please !!!

[FrediKanoute]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Lets face it, the paid salary alone is a problem. In most organisations what Hird had done would be Gross Misconduct. What Essendon are saying is that "yes we are sorry, please don't punish us. OK we will accept the punishment, but we still maintain no one has done anything wrong.

Life ban. 2 years draft pick ban, Contibution to the equalisation fund. Board sacked and administration to revert to the AFL.

[mjp]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Everything everyone is saying is correct of course...but if the whole point of the punishments is to 'whack' Essendon then I think it is all a bit sad.

They are in the wrong. Their idea was bad. Their level of governance was non-existent. They have behaved terribly. But it is also worth remembering that these things gain a momentum all of their own and when you read through the charges the level of escalation in activities is both horrifying whilst also being someone understandable...if we are already doing this then 'that' isn't such a leap.

Don't dismiss the fine. That will reduce their ability to invest in their footy dept...it is significant.
Losing draft picks is massive.
Having their senior coach suspended is massive and without precedent in the competition.

Personally, I just want it to be over. I don't really have an axe to grind with the bombers...in a lot of ways their actions will help the competition as I cannot see sport science departments being allowed so much autonomy at any club in the short-med term.

[jeemak]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Not a bad post at all mjp.

[Remi Moses]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

That's loose change for Little.
I want it over, and I want draft sanctions for two years.
First and second round should be happening.

[Bornadog]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

We will find out tomorrow

[Topdog]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

But at the moment MJP it doesn't look like draft picks will be lost and the senior coach will be back in charge after 1 season. If the draft picks are included and Hird isn't allowed to be a senior coach for 3 years but back in football after 1 year than I think it is acceptable.

[LostDoggy]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Everything everyone is saying is correct of course...but if the whole point of the punishments is to 'whack' Essendon then I think it is all a bit sad.

They are in the wrong. Their idea was bad. Their level of governance was non-existent. They have behaved terribly. But it is also worth remembering that these things gain a momentum all of their own and when you read through the charges the level of escalation in activities is both horrifying whilst also being someone understandable...if we are already doing this then 'that' isn't such a leap.

Don't dismiss the fine. That will reduce their ability to invest in their footy dept...it is significant.
Losing draft picks is massive.
Having their senior coach suspended is massive and without precedent in the competition.

Personally, I just want it to be over. I don't really have an axe to grind with the bombers...in a lot of ways their actions will help the competition as I cannot see sport science departments being allowed so much autonomy at any club in the short-med term.

Rehabilitation over punishment?

[GVGjr]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

Everything everyone is saying is correct of course...but if the whole point of the punishments is to 'whack' Essendon then I think it is all a bit sad.

They are in the wrong. Their idea was bad. Their level of governance was non-existent. They have behaved terribly. But it is also worth remembering that these things gain a momentum all of their own and when you read through the charges the level of escalation in activities is both horrifying whilst also being someone understandable...if we are already doing this then 'that' isn't such a leap.

Don't dismiss the fine. That will reduce their ability to invest in their footy dept...it is significant.
Losing draft picks is massive.
Having their senior coach suspended is massive and without precedent in the competition.

MJP, it has to be a combination of sanctions more than what is being reported though. Governance is only part of the issue here.

It's taken 6 months of negotiation, constant debate and speculation in the media just to get them to admit they were (very) wrong with the way they administered things. There has also been a number of victims along the way while one stubborn and self absorbed fool tried to deny things over and over again and even threatened legal action because he wasn't receiving natural justice.

ALPHA should be very annoyed that players were given supplements that weren't passed for human consumption and the parents and families of the players should be concerned all because one man wasn't taking advice from the club Doctor and even his own senior assistant coach to cease this experiment.

- Hird needs to be banned from the game for more than 12 months
In a time well before drugs in Australian sport became an issue, Justin Charles received a 16 weeks ban and there was no benchmark in those days.

- The club needs to lose early draft picks for two years

- The club needs to lose the ANZAC Day games as they don't uphold the right values

- The club needs to be fined

- The players need the option of becoming a free agent because their employer has let them down so badly and can't be trusted.

Lets see how things pan out tomorrow but if Essendon are a finals contender next year then the AFL has let the competition down.

[jeemak]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

GVGjr, the reality is EFC are likely to be good enough to be finalists next year, possibly even contenders if they keep their players.

I think we need to brace ourselves for their list remaining in tact, unless WADA step in over the seemingly incompetent ASADA and actually take control of the situation and ban players.

I do agree that they should be excluded from receiving beneficial fixturing, including their blockbuster ANZAC and Dreamtime games, as well as marquee Friday and Saturday night games against large drawing clubs. As I've said earlier, they should be placed at the back of the queue.

Hird, the EFC and all other clubs are bound by the rules and processes agreed to which form AFL governance, though as rank as it is to us Hird will have likely if he subjected himself completely to the hearing and subsequent rulings of the AFL been denied natural justice.

There's no sympathy for him from me, and I do think that 12 months out of the game doesn't reflect his level of culpability in this mess. However, he and the AFL know that this is the best outcome each respective party is likely to gain if the matter is kept out of the courts.

It genuinely fails the logic test that somebody could expose an organisation like Hird has, keep it from participating in talent acquisition for two years, have it fined, and lose the output of an entire season due to his actions and still come back to a position of business as usual after a 12 month holiday. But that's how the AFL needs to play it to keep things out of the courts where they'd otherwise be a reasonable chance to suffer significant embarrassment due to their own poor governance and management!

As Sedat has posted throughout his good work on this topic, ASADA, WADA and Worksafe now need to step in and punish those responsible to close out the matter.

We all need to remember the AFL has limited powers to determine, prove and punish drug cheating if it took place. We also need to understand that a protracted legal process, which the EFC has a very good chance of being represented well within is completely undesirable to the league, and with that they need to give a fair amount of ground to move on.

[Greystache]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

They are in the wrong. Their idea was bad. Their level of governance was non-existent. They have behaved terribly. But it is also worth remembering that these things gain a momentum all of their own and when you read through the charges the level of escalation in activities is both horrifying whilst also being someone understandable...if we are already doing this then 'that' isn't such a leap.

I can't accept that line of argument in any way. On that basis you could justify anything in life so long as the increments were over an extended enough period. The Nazi party didn't just turn up to the town square of Munich as say "hey let's murder 6 million Jews".

[jeemak]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

I can't accept that line of argument in any way. On that basis you could justify anything in life so long as the increments were over an extended enough period. The Nazi party didn't just turn up to the town square of Munich as say "hey let's murder 6 million Jews".

That's where I think the severity of consequences comes into things. Remember, the potential consequences play a part, if even on a subconscious level in decision making.

[LostDoggy]

Re: AFL targets Essendon Royalty

I can't accept that line of argument in any way. On that basis you could justify anything in life so long as the increments were over an extended enough period. The Nazi party didn't just turn up to the town square of Munich as say "hey let's murder 6 million Jews".

I don't know if mjp is necessarily defending Essendon, just pointing out how a situation like that can develop.

And for the record, yes. You can justify anything in life. Sad but true, that's human nature.