Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

[westdog54]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Your point is spot on, GWS cannot trade back into the mini draft. So it is in their best interests to engineer a favourable trade with another club(s) for the likes of Martin and Hogan.

The question then becomes: would GWS prefer pick 2 plus something, pick 4 plus something, or picks 5 and 6 plus something less something else?

Given they already have pick 1, I know which I'd prefer.

[LongWait]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

The question then becomes: would GWS prefer pick 2 plus something, pick 4 plus something, or picks 5 and 6 plus something less something else?

Given they already have pick 1, I know which I'd prefer.

It's highly unlikely that Gold Coast would offer pick 2 for a Mini Draft pick, especially when Toumpass is sitting there begging for them to take him. Toumpass is rated by many as highly, or more highly, than Martin (and can play from round 1 next year.)

Melbourne with pick 4 are maybe a threat if they don't need to use pick 3 on Viney, but Melbourne seem very keen to add ready-to-play guys to their list and the Mini Draft players are not eligible and won't be ready until at least 2014. Melbourne will possibly be attracted to Grundy or maybe even Macrae with pick 4, if 3 goes on Viney.

We are in the box seat for Martin but need to be very careful that we don't overpay. We have to be prepared to lose Martin in ensuring that we maximise the value of picks 5 and 6 by not overpaying for him. I'd reckon pick 6 should be our top bid for him if we only bid for MD1.

It would be so easy to "fall in love with the deal" and forget the real value of Martin. So often in business I've seen goal displacement occur in these situations: landing Martin becomes the objective, instead of landing the best deal for our club (which may or may not include Martin.)

Sorry for the rant but I'm very concerned that the club gets this negotiation right - it could be the most important trade/drafting period in our history.

[westdog54]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

It's highly unlikely that Gold Coast would offer pick 2 for a Mini Draft pick, especially when Toumpass is sitting there begging for them to take him. Toumpass is rated by many as highly, or more highly, than Martin (and can play from round 1 next year.)

Melbourne with pick 4 are maybe a threat if they don't need to use pick 3 on Viney, but Melbourne seem very keen to add ready-to-play guys to their list and the Mini Draft players are not eligible and won't be ready until at least 2014. Melbourne will possibly be attracted to Grundy or maybe even Macrae with pick 4, if 3 goes on Viney.

We are in the box seat for Martin but need to be very careful that we don't overpay. We have to be prepared to lose Martin in ensuring that we maximise the value of picks 5 and 6by not overpaying for him. I'd reckon pick 6 should be our top bid for him if we only bid for MD1.

It would be so easy to "fall in love with the deal" and forget the real value of Martin. So often in business I've seen goal displacement occur in these situations: landing Martin becomes the objective, instead of landing the best deal for our club (hich may or may not include Martin.)

Sorry for the rant but I'm very concerned that the club gets this negotiation right - it could be the most important trade/drafting period in our history.

Does the Pick 5 and 6 for Pick 9, MD Pick 1 and Anderson deal appeal to you?

[LongWait]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Does the Pick 5 and 6 for Pick 9, MD Pick 1 and Anderson deal appeal to you?

Absolutely it does. It seems a very good deal to me and that's why I'm a little sceptical about whether it will happen. A guy I know who I used to work with, who now works for the AFL, claims it is being talked about over the water cooler at AFL house as a possibility (for what that is worth.)

[westdog54]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Absolutely it does. It seems a very good deal to me and that's why I'm a little sceptical about whether it will happen. A guy I know who I used to work with, who now works for the AFL, claims it is being talked about over the water cooler at AFL house as a possibility (for what that is worth.)

Now who's being negative?.

The problem with this deal is that it relies on Richmond coming to the party and I'm not sure that GWS will view Tyson as being worth only pick 9 and Richmond may need to sweeten their end of the deal.

Beyond that I think the deal is about as win-win as you can get. We get Martin and keep ourselves in the first round of the draft, plus pick up another highly rated player, GWS get to utilise a player that has no intention of playing for them to pick up picks 5 and 6, Tyson doesn't have to play for GWS anymore, and Richmond get their man. Everybody wins.

I'm quietly confident that a deal will get done.

[LongWait]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Now who's being negative?.

The problem with this deal is that it relies on Richmond coming to the party and I'm not sure that GWS will view Tyson as being worth only pick 9 and Richmond may need to sweeten their end of the deal.

Beyond that I think the deal is about as win-win as you can get. We get Martin and keep ourselves in the first round of the draft, plus pick up another highly rated player, GWS get to utilise a player that has no intention of playing for them to pick up picks 5 and 6, Tyson doesn't have to play for GWS anymore, and Richmond get their man. Everybody wins.

I'm quietly confident that a deal will get done.

Agree with all that (including the slap for me being negative!)

[The Cowshed]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

I've noted Jack Martin has been officially weighted at 64, 68 & 72 kilos from three different sources. He looks awfully slight, I tend to believe the 64 kilo one.

Will he be another Richard Tambling ?? or Jordan McMahon and not be able to put on weight. Farren Ray was even heavier but never progressed. I like his dedication in The Age article yesterday but the kid may not be physically ready for 3-4 years...can a team like the Bulldogs afford to wait that long?

Should we be looking to draft two stronger bodied players who are close to playing than taking the gamble on Martin? Then next year we can butter up with Thomas Boyd or Jack Billings when we finish last and secure the number one draft pick...

[GVGjr]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

I've noted Jack Martin has been officially weighted at 64, 68 & 72 kilos from three different sources. He looks awfully slight, I tend to believe the 64 kilo one.

.

FWIW, He weighed in a little over 70kg at the combine

[stefoid]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

I've noted Jack Martin has been officially weighted at 64, 68 & 72 kilos from three different sources. He looks awfully slight, I tend to believe the 64 kilo one.

Will he be another Richard Tambling ?? or Jordan McMahon and not be able to put on weight. Farren Ray was even heavier but never progressed. I like his dedication in The Age article yesterday but the kid may not be physically ready for 3-4 years...can a team like the Bulldogs afford to wait that long?

Should we be looking to draft two stronger bodied players who are close to playing than taking the gamble on Martin? Then next year we can butter up with Thomas Boyd or Jack Billings when we finish last and secure the number one draft pick...

Dalhaus was pretty skinny and slight when we got him. If they can play, weight isnt much of an issue, and he will start playing forward / outside anyway.

The problem with the three players you mentioned is they cant play. Even 6 years into the system, with their bodies conditioned and at playing weight, they were/are just hacks.

[jeemak]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

I've noted Jack Martin has been officially weighted at 64, 68 & 72 kilos from three different sources. He looks awfully slight, I tend to believe the 64 kilo one.

Will he be another Richard Tambling ?? or Jordan McMahon and not be able to put on weight. Farren Ray was even heavier but never progressed. I like his dedication in The Age article yesterday but the kid may not be physically ready for 3-4 years...can a team like the Bulldogs afford to wait that long?

Should we be looking to draft two stronger bodied players who are close to playing than taking the gamble on Martin? Then next year we can butter up with Thomas Boyd or Jack Billings when we finish last and secure the number one draft pick...

For a 17 year old weighing between 64kg and the 'stache's number of 70kg isn't so bad. Given some time in our system he's likely to be around the 80-85kg mark by the time he's 20-21, which will be perfect for how football is played these days. The main thing for him though is developing his core, and getting big around the glutes, thighs, flexers etc.

Being good or competitive in 2014-2015 would be a nice outcome, but I think we all want to be awesome from 2016-2020, and taper off around 2022.

To get there we need to bring in a mix of different players with different sizes and attributes, and we need to back our development programs in areas across the board other than strength to help us get there.

[mjp]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Will he be another Richard Tambling ?? or Jordan McMahon and not be able to put on weight. Farren Ray was even heavier but never progressed. I like his dedication in The Age article yesterday but the kid may not be physically ready for 3-4 years...can a team like the Bulldogs afford to wait that long?

He will play Round 1 2014 - weight or no weight. Attacks the ball with complete commitment.

[Greystache]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

I've noted Jack Martin has been officially weighted at 64, 68 & 72 kilos from three different sources. He looks awfully slight, I tend to believe the 64 kilo one.

Will he be another Richard Tambling ?? or Jordan McMahon and not be able to put on weight. Farren Ray was even heavier but never progressed. I like his dedication in The Age article yesterday but the kid may not be physically ready for 3-4 years...can a team like the Bulldogs afford to wait that long?

Should we be looking to draft two stronger bodied players who are close to playing than taking the gamble on Martin? Then next year we can butter up with Thomas Boyd or Jack Billings when we finish last and secure the number one draft pick...

Richard Tambling never had any problems with being too skinny, he was 180cm and 80kg with a fiarly nugety build. His problem was he couldn't handle the ball cleanly or make a decision under pressure... Or basically play football in any meaningful way.

[Mofra]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Ditto McMahon - he had pace and was a solid HB rebounder, his disposal under pressure just wasn't good enough for the role we wanted him to play. Another 5kgs wouldn't have changed that.

[anfo27]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

Richard Tambling never had any problems with being too skinny, he was 180cm and 80kg with a fiarly nugety build. His problem was he couldn't handle the ball cleanly or make a decision under pressure... Or basically play football in any meaningful way.

From what i remember Tambling was drafted based on one stand out game that the Richmond recruiters were present at. Don' think he did much else in the other games. Martin has done way more than 1 stand out game.

[Greystache]

Re: Retirements, Trades, Delistings and the Rookie list

From what i remember Tambling was drafted based on one stand out game that the Richmond recruiters were present at. Don' think he did much else in the other games. Martin has done way more than 1 stand out game.

Tambling was Captain of NT's under 18's and won the Hunter Harrison medal as best player in division 2 in the National Championships. He didn't make much impact as a player in the AFL but it's wrong to suggest he wasn't a very highly credentialed under 18 player.