BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

[Hotdog60]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Jong might move into a definite out as of the news this week.

Out of contract next year and not feeling it mentally he may decide to give it away.

Has had a lot of bad luck in getting to stay in the seniors and if he could have got a few seasons in to playing at that level who knows.

[Mofra]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Jenkins' knee injury means our reported interest surely cools, and Greenwood would be untouchable now too.

[Bornadog]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Jenkins' knee injury means our reported interest surely cools, and Greenwood would be untouchable now too.

Is this true? God I hope we don't follow through.

[Axe Man]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Jenkins' knee injury means our reported interest surely cools, and Greenwood would be untouchable now too.

It's not an ACL so i would imagine worst case scenario he misses the rest of this season but should be right for next year. I'm not sure there has been any reported interest by us, just speculation he could leave as he had been running around in the SANFL.

Is this true? God I hope we don't follow through.

Did you watch the game last night? He would comfortably be our best key forward at present.

[Bornadog]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Did you watch the game last night? He would comfortably be our best key forward at present.

Will be 31 next year. I have seen my fair share of hasbeen forwards at the club.

[Twodogs]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Will be 31 next year. I have seen my fair share of hasbeen forwards at the club.

Mate, if any supporter base has seen MORE than their fair share of forwards who should have been museum exhibits then it's us.

[Mantis]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Did you watch the game last night? He would comfortably be our best key forward at present.

Richmond are really struggling to contain tall forwards at present including our own 19yo KF who took 9 contested marks against them a month ago.

He was playing reserves footy for a reason.

[The Doctor]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Looking at BT's June update got me thinking about what we could/would/should do with our list at the end of this season. My thoughts are based on an assumption that our season will continue in much the same way and that we will finish outside the 8 with say 8-9 wins.

We will therefore be in a strong position come draft & trading time. We will have;

* A single digit 1st round pick
* A high 2nd round pick
* 3 x 3rd rounders
* Future draft picks which could be seen as highly valuable
* Access to some handy free agents
* Lots of cap space
* All our important players are signed up

* Priority signings from the group contracted to 2020 - Tim English, Bailey Smith, Easton Wood. Getting Smith and English signed up for the longer term basically puts the core of our next contending team in place.

In terms of our current list I think we should cut hard this year. These are the guys I think need to finish the year strongly

Dale Morris - if ever a player has earnt the right to go out on his own terms it's Morris. At 37 this year how much more can his body endure?

Tory Dickson - injuries and mixed form have curtailed his output since 2016. Will be 32 this year.

Fletcher Roberts - AT 26 should be entering his prime but has only managed a handful of games since our premiership. Would seem a candidate for delisting but I would be inclined to keep him as we don't have a lot of KP depth in defence

Matt Suckling - will be 32 next year. I'd be inclined to keep him for another season if his body holds up.

Jong, Williams, Webb, Dale - these 4 were among our best players in Footscrays 2016 premiership and were rightly expected to be in the new wave of players who would come into the team and help keep us strong. Yet 3 years later none of them have been able to secure a place in the team for whatever reason despite a parade of premiership stars retiring or leaving. Are they classic tweeners?

Doubtful any of these players would earn us anything in a trade. Maybe Williams could get us a minor pick or upgrade.

Gowers, R.Smith, Hayes, Lynch - similar to the above group. Our senior team need the skills these guys have but they haven't been able to produce it consistently. Gowers can be a good player but his kicking and forward pressure let him down. He is probably safe but the others need to do more to justify a spot on the list

Callum Porter - Not sure what he brings and hasn't looked likely bar a few fleeting glimpses.


I wouldn't be surprised if we cut hard here and let a few of these guys go. While we are still a young team and we need depth, most of these guys don't really provide it to the level we need. if we were to let a few of them go how do we replace them? Lets start with filling holes in our list and search the free agency/uncontracted options.

Ruckmen. We only have English and Sweet as bonafide specialist ruckmen. Trengove provides support but I would argue we should anchor him as our key backman (like Heath Grundy was for the Swans). We need another experienced ruckman and a 2nd ruck/forward type. These are available on the free market, I have put their 2020 age alongside their name;

Sam Jacobs 32
Levi Casboult 30
Matt Kreuzer 31
Tom Nicholls 28
Todd Goldstein 32
Patty Ryder 32
Nick Natanui 30
Josh Jenkins 31

Any of these guys would represent short term options and provide support & cover for English. I'd love us to have a crack at Natanui or Ryder who might be enticed by the right offer but would expect to come in as the number 1. Nicholls might be a cheaper option worth considering.


Other Free Agency Options

Adam Tomlinson 26
Sam Day 27
Ben Reid 31
Stephen Coniglio 26

Coniglio would be great but would probably gobble up most of our free cap space! I think Tomlinson who provides multi position versatility should be our no.1 target and Day would help bolster our defence.


Drafting - I would like us to keep our picks in the draft this year and use them on goalkickers and elite distributors if we can get them. The draft this year is loaded with them especially in the top 25 picks where we will probably have 2 picks. A lot of people say we need more pressure small forwards but I would prefer us to prioritise small/medium forwards who can score first and foremost.

With our mid range picks I suggest we use one of them on the best key position forward outside the AFL who is still young enough to make an impact. I've banged on about him before and I think he must surely be worth considering and that is;

Mason Shaw (South Freo) 25yo, 197cm. He has kicked 24 goals in his last 6 games in the WAFL. Has kicked between 40 & 66 goals in each of the last 5 seasons and has been fairly durable. If we had a guy at footscray producing this we would all be doing handstands.

Thats my take. For now!

[ledge]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

It’s okay to say cut hard but you have to bring in better than you have, if their are no players that are better at least you know what you have got and they are already drilled in what they need to do.

Cutting 9 or so players means your last three will be around 80 to 100 in the draft.
It’s a balance of where you end up on the ladder how you feel the quality is in the draft, unless you are lucky enough to get a sleeper that high it’s a big gamble.
How many you discard depends on what you see in the upcoming draft.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Mate, if any supporter base has seen MORE than their fair share of forwards who should have been museum exhibits then it's us.

please refer to the 'talls of shame' thread

[bulldogtragic]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

July Update:

I managed to nut out some of the draft/list management paths we could follow last night. There's a lot of paths that open up for us, so here are the predications of the update:

AFEL.com.au are stating Jammara Ugle-Hagan could go top 5 next year. So for this update I'm assuming we still have rights after the review.

Ewan MacPherson is tracking at the same or better rate than Rhylee West. Both were Vic Metro MVP at u/16 level. Northern Knights coach Justin Wenke said this last week to the local newspaper about MacPherson: ‘(He's) Been a shining light for us....bottom-age boy and he reads the ball well, marks it well, makes good decisions with his feet, great competitor’. - So I imagine he's going to get bid on by us.

Our likely picks at the end of the year right now are: 4, 22, 40, 43, 44 & 76

I'm expecting us to finish maybe 11th next year, so we need to trade out our 2020 first rounder for maximum effect. (Keeping it is a waste on the draft points spectrum).

I'm sorry to do math and give y'all headaches but I have to:

2020 Pick 7 - 1,644 draft points

I propose to trade it for a downgrade to the end of the first round. So we need to look at clubs on the up or are likely to go OK, so they'll do the trade. My initial thoughts are Brisbane & Adelaide. Late first round picks are around 1,000 draft points for us next year. To make it worth our while I'd want Adelaide's pick 19 or Brisbane's pick 20 this year. Draft point disparity isn't huge, any fringe players Might help.

So we are giving up an upgrade probably well into the top 10 next year, for a good second rounder this year.

So it would leave us this year: 4, 19/20, 22, 41, 43, 44 & 76.

Port Adealide are looking like needing a bunch of points for Mead & Burgoyne (Father/Sons). They have pick 30 (629 draft points), I'd like to see if they trade that for picks 43 & 44 (740 draft points) which gives them the equivalent draft points of pick 26 (4 pick/111 draft point upgrade).

So if they play ball: 2019 draft picks: 4, 19/20, 22, 30, 41 & 76 (Josh Kellett has had a fairly good season for the Jets. Not in the Vic metro squad though. If we bid, I imagine it's with a very late pick, ie using pick 76 matching anything after pick 52, or as a rookie).

JUH (say pick 5) & MacPherson (say 26 like West) with the 20% discount would soak up the Adelaide/Brisbane first rounder, our second rounder, our third rounder and our 4th would be a tiny bit of insurance. So potentially, the 2020 draft/list management period is just about kids. So perhaps we need to target some quality ready made players this year.

So picks 4, 19/20, 22, 30, 41 & 76 and around $1.6M in the salary cap. I still like Tomlinson (FA) to help rebuild the defence. I like Papley bigly (19/20+). I'd look at Sam Day (FA) if he were cheap as a free agent. If Brad Hill (22+) (& Stephen Hill, FA) wanted back to Victoria, I'd be all over it. In fact I'd have an open mind for all picks and all price points. If we could manoeuvre to get four picks inside 30, and with our cap, I'd hope this year we could bring in some mature talent and some good kids.

To me it looks like we need to cut much harder this year, and go lighter next year (maybe just 4, and we want to retain most of our out of contract players next year too). This year I'd look at around 8 outs, with 2 already confirmed that's 6 more. Maybe nine in total if there's a trade request out, ie. Williams etc. My outs, providing we trade in some defensive tall/s are:

1. Williams (possibly traded)
2. Picken (already retired)
3. Boyd (already retired)
4. Dickson (retired)
5. Morris (retired)
6. Roberts (let go)
7. Porter (let go)
8. Webb (let go, poor bloke is built like Tom Williams)
9. Bailey Dale (traded for next to nothing, be nice for something with future 2020 draft points, either a fourth or later swaps)
Other names: Suckers (ret. if sick of injuries, or re-assess NFL ambitions) or Jong (GCS previous interest/mental health re-fresh at a new club)


There's dozens of paths from where we are, to what we go/where we could go. But this is the best I've found in my opinion. Hopefully the AFEL see fit to allow us to keep JUH. No JUH changes everything.

[Mofra]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

It’s okay to say cut hard but you have to bring in better than you have, if their are no players that are better at least you know what you have got and they are already drilled in what they need to do.

Absolutely, this often gets lost.

Looking at our age profile any decent cheap trades to help with a position of need would be excellent for us. Lloyd/Duryea/Crozier types>

If Papley is available we should be right into him, and we could ask the question about Ronke who is going ok in the NEAFL too.

[ledge]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Absolutely, this often gets lost.

Looking at our age profile any decent cheap trades to help with a position of need would be excellent for us. Lloyd/Duryea/Crozier types>

If Papley is available we should be right into him, and we could ask the question about Ronke who is going ok in the NEAFL too.

Campbell and Roughead going for Sweet is a bit perplexing at the moment as Sweet is giving us the same as Campbell was and Roughead is better than both.
Unless we see Sweet play seniors and come on very quickly I’m not sure why we made that choice, unless it was contract / money based. I’m not sure if it improved the list still.

[Mofra]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Campbell and Roughead going for Sweet is a bit perplexing at the moment as Sweet is giving us the same as Campbell was and Roughead is better than both.
Unless we see Sweet play seniors and come on very quickly I’m not sure why we made that choice, unless it was contract / money based. I’m not sure if it improved the list still.

Sweet is a kid, he is developing. Different boat to the mature Campbell and Roughy especially considering Trengove finished last year as our no 1 ruck and during pre-season we planned to play both Trengove and English.

[Bornadog]

Re: BT's very, very, very, very early list management thread 2019-2020

Campbell and Roughead going for Sweet is a bit perplexing at the moment as Sweet is giving us the same as Campbell was and Roughead is better than both.
Unless we see Sweet play seniors and come on very quickly I’m not sure why we made that choice, unless it was contract / money based. I’m not sure if it improved the list still.

Sweet is a 21 year old ruckman that is backup and developing in the VFL. 43 hitouts last week. He is actually a better tap ruck than both Campbell and Roughead.

Roughead didn't want to be a VFL ruckman, and we didn't see him fitting into the backline (perhaps a mistake), and Campbell has been around a while and had the opportunity to go to North.

I think it was the right decision. The unfortunate thing is Boyd's retirement which has left us one short in ruck stocks.