2023 List Management Thread

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  • bulldogtragic
    The List Manager
    • Jan 2007
    • 34289

    #481
    Re: 2023 List Management Thread

    Originally posted by jeemak
    Reflecting after the game it's the only reason why I think I could justify getting a new coach. It will give some license to shake things up a little bit.

    Though to me that's not a great reason in itself. What I'd rather do is see the head of the football department and the CEO force the hand of the coach and the list/ recruiting manager - and get them to do it and actually find a way to change things.

    But I don't think either Grant or Baines have the balls to get Beveridge and Power to get their shit together/ force them to perform, and that's the problem.
    Nail. Head.

    But Bevo won’t change his ruck view, his tagging view (didn’t Ward prove it works!) and other theories and interesting match selection calls. Not sure he can get into the heads of this group as I think they’re mentally broken.

    The word was, miss finals, Bevo offers to resign. Maybe that’s the fastest way to address the midfield rotations and/or lack of, the stat wins but losses with lack of defence. Like you’d I’d prefer club leadership to force the issue, but since they can’t or won’t. We are stuck in the recurring yearly dream until Bevo makes the hard decision others won’t. I hope that makes Sam Power’s job a little easier by allowing us to cut deeply. But we’ve just signed Keath & VDM, so maybe that’s wishful thinking. While all the players that could make a difference don’t apparently want to play for us.

    A quick rebuild and new philosophies are the best way to the window quickly. We aren’t in it despite what the club says. If try to top up this off season we will be screwed for a longer time. All things aside, do we want Bevo to rebuild? Do we trust that he could develop the players having seen no improvement in many facets. Wound he change his core beliefs and game plan?

    I don’t think so. I also think fitness is a fail and that our development is a disgrace too. But who is going to change things? No one. Our leaders think everything can be changed with just a tweak. I don’t agree. But I do believe a quick rebuild can be achieved with myriad changes to our game day plans.
    Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

    Comment

    • JanLorMill
      WOOF Member
      • Feb 2023
      • 1743

      #482
      Re: 2023 List Management Thread

      Originally posted by GVGjr
      Are we being a bit harsh on the recruiting and list management team especially when they don't really make the final decision on who gets retained and who gets selected?
      Everyone here knows I've been advocating for more list changes most seasons but I don't think Power and the team have a huge say in it. I would imagine this flows into the length of contracts being offered as well.
      Excuse my ignorance but why we even got a recruiting or list management team if they aren’t making recruiting or list management decisions? Surely at the very least it’s a waste of money.

      Look at Keath today. Injured again yet we just gave him another year. VDM 2 Baker 2 !!!!
      Who makes these decisions? That’s who I’m sacking first.

      Comment

      • GVGjr
        Moderator
        • Nov 2006
        • 45586

        #483
        Re: 2023 List Management Thread

        I should have clarified that when I'm said 'selected' I'm more focused on our match day selections connundrum
        Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

        Comment

        • azabob
          Hall of Fame
          • Sep 2008
          • 15484

          #484
          Re: 2023 List Management Thread

          Originally posted by jeemak
          They get to recommend who comes to the club, and I'm not really being harsh on them here. All I'm saying is they need to be put under pressure to find a way to get some different talent into the mix, while the football department or coaching group needs to be pressured into moving on Treloar now, finding a mix for when Libba goes.

          The length of contracts for peripheral players or playing peripheral players isn't my focus here. I'm specifically calling out the need to change our midfield set up over the next two years. What's happened in the past doesn't worry me at all, I'm being specific about what needs to be done immediately.
          Power and Milesi hands have been tied with our recent luck with Darcy and Marra.

          Now we have the Croft scenario which complicates how to get midfield talent in the door.
          More of an In Bruges guy?

          Comment

          • GVGjr
            Moderator
            • Nov 2006
            • 45586

            #485
            Re: 2023 List Management Thread

            Originally posted by JanLorMill
            Excuse my ignorance but why we even got a recruiting or list management team if they aren’t making recruiting or list management decisions? Surely at the very least it’s a waste of money.

            Look at Keath today. Injured again yet we just gave him another year. VDM 2 Baker 2 !!!!
            Who makes these decisions? That’s who I’m sacking first.
            Regarding Keath, it was a knock that resulted in a concussion and that's just some bad luck
            Contract lengths would be a committee decision
            Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

            Comment

            • jeemak
              Bulldog Legend
              • Oct 2010
              • 22159

              #486
              Re: 2023 List Management Thread

              In response to BT's post - When Bevo had two rucks he liked he played them. Now he's got a good second ruck he plays Lobb and Tim and they share ruck duties. He just doesn't rate Sweet which is absolutely fair enough - so not sure what that has to do with anything we're discussing here.

              I appreciate what you're saying across the rest of your post, but what I don't want is to be stuck with a CEO and footy manager who can't get a football department into line. If they can't get the coach to do what they want, then THEY need to go. If they try and the coach won't listen then the coach needs to go.
              TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

              Comment

              • jeemak
                Bulldog Legend
                • Oct 2010
                • 22159

                #487
                Re: 2023 List Management Thread

                Originally posted by azabob
                Power and Milesi hands have been tied with our recent luck with Darcy and Marra.

                Now we have the Croft scenario which complicates how to get midfield talent in the door.
                That's why the club needs to bite the bullet and do what I said it should do. Doing nothing when you have less opportunity to draft is the least favourable outcome.
                TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

                Comment

                • JanLorMill
                  WOOF Member
                  • Feb 2023
                  • 1743

                  #488
                  Re: 2023 List Management Thread

                  Originally posted by GVGjr
                  Regarding Keath, it was a knock that resulted in a concussion and that's just some bad luck
                  Contract lengths would be a committee decision
                  That’s 2 just this year and both incidents seemed quite innocuous.

                  Comment

                  • GVGjr
                    Moderator
                    • Nov 2006
                    • 45586

                    #489
                    Re: 2023 List Management Thread

                    Originally posted by jeemak
                    In response to BT's post - When Bevo had two rucks he liked he played them. Now he's got a good second ruck he plays Lobb and Tim and they share ruck duties. He just doesn't rate Sweet which is absolutely fair enough - so not sure what that has to do with anything we're discussing here.

                    I appreciate what you're saying across the rest of your post, but what I don't want is to be stuck with a CEO and footy manager who can't get a football department into line. If they can't get the coach to do what they want, then THEY need to go. If they try and the coach won't listen then the coach needs to go.
                    Posted some thoughts around this on the thread about if we are failing given the strength of the list.
                    I mentioned our footy department structure might not be working.
                    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

                    Comment

                    • bulldogtragic
                      The List Manager
                      • Jan 2007
                      • 34289

                      #490
                      Re: 2023 List Management Thread

                      Originally posted by azabob
                      Power and Milesi hands have been tied with our recent luck with Darcy and Marra.

                      Now we have the Croft scenario which complicates how to get midfield talent in the door.
                      A top 10 draft pick by missing finals fixes that now. It’s all good Aza.

                      1. Pick 9-10 midfielder
                      2. Croft
                      3. Need based traded player worth Bris 1st
                      4. FA, however unlikely
                      5-6. Lesser trades (I.e. Henry, Lohmann, Schultz etc)
                      7-9. Late picks (& rookie picks)

                      Not making finals solves the Croft scenario nicely.
                      Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

                      Comment

                      • bulldogtragic
                        The List Manager
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 34289

                        #491
                        Re: 2023 List Management Thread

                        Originally posted by jeemak
                        In response to BT's post - When Bevo had two rucks he liked he played them. Now he's got a good second ruck he plays Lobb and Tim and they share ruck duties. He just doesn't rate Sweet which is absolutely fair enough - so not sure what that has to do with anything we're discussing here.

                        I appreciate what you're saying across the rest of your post, but what I don't want is to be stuck with a CEO and footy manager who can't get a football department into line. If they can't get the coach to do what they want, then THEY need to go. If they try and the coach won't listen then the coach needs to go.
                        I agree. Bevo will get the scrutiny but Grant and co can’t avoid it either.
                        Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

                        Comment

                        • jeemak
                          Bulldog Legend
                          • Oct 2010
                          • 22159

                          #492
                          Re: 2023 List Management Thread

                          Originally posted by GVGjr
                          Posted some thoughts around this on the thread about if we are failing given the strength of the list.
                          I mentioned our footy department structure might not be working.
                          We differ in our views on list strength. We probably have nine or so players playing weekly that many don't think are up to the task.

                          That doesn't mean our football department is effective, and I think you're probably onto something.
                          TF is this?.........Obviously you're not a golfer.

                          Comment

                          • Rocket Science
                            Coaching Staff
                            • Oct 2007
                            • 4871

                            #493
                            Re: 2023 List Management Thread

                            To my mind at least, re-signing the likes of Keath, Vandermeer & Baker screams a lack of faith in our recruiting and/or development efforts to drive improvement.

                            Real welp, shoulder-shrugging, white flag stuff.
                            BORDERLINE FLYING

                            Comment

                            • bulldogtragic
                              The List Manager
                              • Jan 2007
                              • 34289

                              #494
                              Re: 2023 List Management Thread

                              Do you think players look at Bruce (career ended as a full back after being Saints leading goal kicker) and Lobb (so far played ruck, second ruck, FF, CHF, wing, defence and VFL - after being Freo’s leading goal kicker) and think “why would I want that for my career, so why join the dogs”?
                              Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

                              Comment

                              • bulldogtragic
                                The List Manager
                                • Jan 2007
                                • 34289

                                #495
                                Re: 2023 List Management Thread

                                Originally posted by Rocket Science
                                To my mind at least, re-signing the likes of Keath, Vandermeer & Baker screams a lack of faith in our recruiting and/or development efforts to drive improvement.

                                Real welp, shoulder-shrugging, white flag stuff.
                                I really think the club thinks it’s at 10.00 or 11.00 in the premiership clock. Just needs slight tweaks and everything will be fine.

                                I disagree.
                                Rocket Science: the epitaph for the Beveridge era - whenever it ends - reading 'Here lies a team that could beat anyone on its day, but seldom did when it mattered most'. 15/7/2023

                                Comment

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