2023 List Management Thread

[josie]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I?m with you BT. Hawthorn are ruthless including letting popular players go and they?re further advanced than we are.

I?d be open to offers for English, especially if he wants to move back to WA. Not sure about Naughty in backline, prefer a specialist goal kicking coach, as I love the ground pressure he brings and another ave/poor kick in backline scares me.

I?d also be looking at bringing in the very best fitness and conditioning personnel as we have seem to have had an inability to run out games for quite a while now.

I?d also look at why we renew fringe players for more than a year, when no other club is likely to be interested.

If we do yet another year of tweaks here and there in both list and off field personnel I think membership and attendance will start to dive. Folks like me will always rejoin no matter where we are on the ladder but there?s plenty that wont. Plus not only will we be wasting prime Bont, we are more likely to lose some of our young talent in a year or two if we keep treading water.

Needs to be a thorough review with involvement of external eyes, from top to bottom. This should have happened last year, instead we tinkered.

We need a harder edge. Otherwise we will continue to be mediocre.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I?m with you BT. Hawthorn are ruthless including letting popular players go and they?re further advanced than we are.

I?d be open to offers for English, especially if he wants to move back to WA. Not sure about Naughty in backline, prefer a specialist goal kicking coach, as I love the ground pressure he brings and another ave/poor kick in backline scares me.

I?d also be looking at bringing in the very best fitness and conditioning personnel as we have seem to have had an inability to run out games for quite a while now.

I?d also look at why we renew fringe players for more than a year, when no other club is likely to be interested.

If we do yet another year of tweaks here and there in both list and off field personnel I think membership and attendance will start to dive. Folks like me will always rejoin no matter where we are on the ladder but there?s plenty that wont. Plus not only will we be wasting prime Bont, we are more likely to lose some of our young talent in a year or two if we keep treading water.

Needs to be a thorough review with involvement of external eyes, from top to bottom. This should have happened last year, instead we tinkered.

We need a harder edge. Otherwise we will continue to be mediocre.

Good calls. As I posted I another thread, I along with many need some hope. I don?t see this side rising up the ladder. At best plateau or then a decline. Shift our done players, bring in some top end talent and show that the future is brighter. If we can do this, the fans will stay and if we do it right we will be in our window again with Bont still playing. Delay things, have wishful thinking as the plan, then we will delay rebuilding and Bont won?t be there.

Even next year, the thought that Cody, Lohmann & Clarke (who would be most hated smalls in the comp) is pretty exciting. A dozen games from Duursma is exciting. Getting a couple of games from another father/son is exciting. Clearing space to hopefully see a West or Garcia bloom into a mid is exciting. Exciting for the now and sling shots is back into contention with a younger and more balanced list with guys hitting their straps in the 100 game range and Darcy, Buss, JOD etc becoming best 22 players. With the potential to add exciting kids in Jaxon Cooney & Levi West down the track. And have Bont.

I just don?t think we will drop all that much, and won?t stay down long with a good game plan and a playing group without the psychological scar tissue of knowing a 20-40 point lead is still in losing territory for them.

I agree on the goal kicking coach m, and for Marra as well.

[azabob]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

BT, I don't see how we can get rid of the players we need to with Croft creeping up the draft board with each passing week.

You and I had some great back and fourth where he will be taken and unfortunately it appears I am going to be right.

Reality is we need to clear Bruce, Crozier, McNeil, O'Brien, R.Smith, Hannan, Bedendo, Khamis, McComb, Raak, McLean, Duryea.

But we can't as we will not have access to the first few rounds of the draft. So we can't re-generate talent via the 2023 draft.

I think we will end up signing or trying to: O'Brien, Bedendo, Duryea, O'Donnell, Sweet, Williams and Poulter.

The way I see it is if we take Croft there will be minimal list changes.

If we chose not to take Croft we have the opportunity to really hit the top end of the draft and get in three to four really good kids.

So... what ya going do?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

BT, I don't see how we can get rid of the players we need to with Croft creeping up the draft board with each passing week.

You and I had some great back and fourth where he will be taken and unfortunately it appears I am going to be right.

Reality is we need to clear Bruce, Crozier, McNeil, O'Brien, R.Smith, Hannan, Bedendo, Khamis, McComb, Raak, McLean, Duryea.

But we can't as we will not have access to the first few rounds of the draft. So we can't re-generate talent via the 2023 draft.

I think we will end up signing or trying to: O'Brien, Bedendo, Duryea, O'Donnell, Sweet, Williams and Poulter.

The way I see it is if we take Croft there will be minimal list changes.

If we chose not to take Croft we have the opportunity to really hit the top end of the draft and get in three to four really good kids.

So... what ya going do?

Trade up to GCS Pick 4. From our two firsts.

If Geelong’s first was high enough and offered for Smith (say pick 9), take it.

Then have picks 4, 9 and take Croft at say 15.

Trade others for later points or future picks and look at using them on younger guys like Lohmann (Pick 20 two years ago). If the Henry rumours are true then our second on him (former pick 9 and younger profile). I’m no Henry fan mind you.

4, 9, 15/Croft with Henry & Lohmann

That would mean we need to generate up to 700-800 extra draft points to cover Croft. Hopefully Sweet picks WCE for an exchange of 4ths (Melb one). That gets us about 150. Khamis maybe gets us a 100 in a similar trade to Essendon. So we need to find 550-650. I’d seriously look at Macrae to fill that void, Williams depending on compo, along with a F3 to GCS for some unused points to avoid deficit.

I’d also ask English exactly how much money he wants. If it’s too much… With picks 4 & 9 we could use him to trade up the order. But that’s only if his wage demand is high.

We can hit the draft if we make some hard calls. Croft is a bonus for a shit year.

[Critter]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

BT, I don't see how we can get rid of the players we need to with Croft creeping up the draft board with each passing week.

You and I had some great back and fourth where he will be taken and unfortunately it appears I am going to be right.

Reality is we need to clear Bruce, Crozier, McNeil, O'Brien, R.Smith, Hannan, Bedendo, Khamis, McComb, Raak, McLean, Duryea.

But we can't as we will not have access to the first few rounds of the draft. So we can't re-generate talent via the 2023 draft.

I think we will end up signing or trying to: O'Brien, Bedendo, Duryea, O'Donnell, Sweet, Williams and Poulter.

The way I see it is if we take Croft there will be minimal list changes.

If we chose not to take Croft we have the opportunity to really hit the top end of the draft and get in three to four really good kids.

So... what ya going do?

I agree with the sentiment of your post.

We are at a sensitive stage of our development. We have too many players who are not AFL standard and, potentially, limited opportunities to refresh the list. The drafting of JUH and Darcy in 2020 & 21 has limited our list development, particularly in the midfield. It is slow and is increasingly uncompetitive in one-on-one contests.

Taking Croft will result in another severely impacted year. While he looks an interesting prospect, he isn't a compelling option. So, I can well live with passing on him.

I would also consider any offer on Tim English, even if it meant having a quiet word in someone for West Coast's shell-like to get the ball rolling. I am more than comfortable with Sweet being our number 1 ruck, with Darcy and Lobb as chop-outs. As you suggest, we need draft picks - as many as possible, as high up the order as possible. We can live without another 200cm forward.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

The Bailey Smith to Geelong narrative that the media keep coming back to will no doubt get louder now Geelong with have pick ranging from pick 7-9. So expect more chirping.

Conversely, would we actually consider trading him for a top 10 pick before a Croft bid?

[azabob]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

The Bailey Smith to Geelong narrative that the media keep coming back to will no doubt get louder now Geelong with have pick ranging from pick 7-9. So expect more chirping.

Conversely, would we actually consider trading him for a top 10 pick before a Croft bid?

Ask me this time next week.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Ask me this time next week.

Funny, I was going to post answer after today. But I can wait a week. But it might be a job interview next week.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

So Khamis has 33 goals in the VFL this season. Could hit 40 with a final or two. Yet out the door. I know why, no debate. Just seems a little strange to all but push a 40 goal season young player out the door for realistically not much in return.

[azabob]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Funny, I was going to post answer after today. But I can wait a week. But it might be a job interview next week.

Question has merit now.

[azabob]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

So Khamis has 33 goals in the VFL this season. Could hit 40 with a final or two. Yet out the door. I know why, no debate. Just seems a little strange to all but push a 40 goal season young player out the door for realistically not much in return.

So… good question. Does Naughton stay? If not we should keep Khamis. Your third forward needs to be a grinder, not an out and our star.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Question has merit now.

We know the likely math now. Bailey Smith for Pick 10 if it were to be offered.

[azabob]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

My list of untouchables has shrunk to three.

1. Bontempelli
2 JUH
3. Darcy

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

So… good question. Does Naughton stay? If not we should keep Khamis. Your third forward needs to be a grinder, not an out and our star.

If Naughton got a huge money offer from a contender, would he want to stay and rebuild and potentially be sent to defence by a new coach?

If not, he needs to be traded while under contract to avoid another Dunkley trade pantsing. That’s this year.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

My list of untouchables has shrunk to three.

1. Bontempelli
2 JUH
3. Darcy

Agreed.