2023 List Management Thread

[jeemak]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Not an ultimatum. Who would lose out if I stopped visiting.
A promise to myself to avoid the agony of seeing one of my favourite players who’s given us so much being debated in cold and calculating terms for “trade value.” I know this is the way things are and sentiment is largely dead but it’s not for me.

Well, we would lose out if you stopped posting.

And I did say if I was to suggest we trade Adam it would be to get him north in lieu of him being with his family if it happened.

I also am really eager to keep Jacko because he's a premiership player.

So it's not all cold, and I'm sure there's another way around it. And I can assure you the Trade Dunkley thread took more out of me than it did anyone else who reads and posts around here.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Well, we would lose out if you stopped posting.

And I did say if I was to suggest we trade Adam it would be to get him north in lieu of him being with his family if it happened.

I also am really eager to keep Jacko because he's a premiership player.

So it's not all cold, and I'm sure there's another way around it. And I can assure you the Trade Dunkley thread took more out of me than it did anyone else who reads and posts around here.

Not a go at you in any way. Or being sanctimonious. Sentimentalists want to win premierships too. It’s just that eternal question of why it all matters and having decided long ago that there has to be more to it all than success as measured in flags I really personally couldn’t bear us making that ruthless call.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

The club clearly rated this list as a strong one and you don't recruit 2 x 30yo like Jones and Lobb into a side where the list isn't deemed as a genuine contender quality.
We will need to nail the list changes this year and set about fixing some of the structural issues and bringing back some selection integrity and there could be some merit in making some big calls but I can't see us doing it.

[jeemak]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

The club clearly rated this list as a strong one and you don't recruit 2 x 30yo like Jones and Lobb into a side where the list isn't deemed as a genuine contender quality.
We will need to nail the list changes this year and set about fixing some of the structural issues and bringing back some selection integrity and there could be some merit in making some big calls but I can't see us doing it.

Or, the club figured if you can just make your list better you do it incrementally if you're draft constrained and have members with expectations.

The club couldn't tell the members we need to go back to the well again, and in honesty they just can't because we do have a lot of talent (just not as much as people including our own posters/ members think).

So GVG, I read a lot of what we should have done in the past from you, what would you do in the future, how would you fix this? Specifically.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Or, the club figured if you can just make your list better you do it incrementally if you're draft constrained and have members with expectations.

The club couldn't tell the members we need to go back to the well again, and in honesty they just can't because we do have a lot of talent (just not as much as people including our own posters/ members think).

So GVG, I read a lot of what we should have done in the past from you, what would you do in the future, how would you fix this? Specifically.

I don't believe the highlighted section is factual but that's clearly your opinion so it's probably got some validity to it.

I'd also challenge the view that the club can't be honest with the supporters. Surely members with expectations is a good thing and why couldn't they tell them they need to reset if they actually have to?
Bringing in Lobb and Jones tells the members we are close to the mark.
The alternative is have have a membership base that is confused because we seem to be underachieving and that can't be a good thing.

The list is a good one due to the high number of quality players we have but we are carrying a few too many marginal players limiting our ability to look at players with a potentially higher ceiling. It could be better balanced and we lack some depth. We must be prepared to select players later in the draft. We've had to invest heavily in adding Marra and Darcy and that was always going to take some time.
I suspect we will have to bite the bullet and move on 10 players at the end of the year and that might hurt for another year.
Happy to name them if that helps.

I've also offered some possibles reasons for our fluctuating form this year because I don't think it's all down to the list quality from whatever view is shared. Post #98

https://www.woof.net.au/forum/showthread.php?23657-Western-Bulldogs-accused-of-wasting-golden-era/page7

I think it's the easy option to just question the quality of the playing list every year if we don't measure up and there has to be more layers to it.

I've frequently read that you believe the list is overrated by most supporters and normally this is expressed late in the in the season more than during the trade and draft periods of the previous year.
If the list is overrated why do you think the club isn't biting the bullet and bringing in more younger talent rather than topping up like we did last year? Why would a list that was good enough to make a GF in 2021 and actually be in a strong position to win a flag that year be overrated?

[mjp]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Not a go at you in any way. Or being sanctimonious. Sentimentalists want to win premierships too. It’s just that eternal question of why it all matters and having decided long ago that there has to be more to it all than success as measured in flags I really personally couldn’t bear us making that ruthless call.

I want to win with OUR players. I know this makes me overly sentimental but I don't understand why 'coaching and development' is seen as secondary to list management.

We have good players. Maybe they aren't quite as consistently good as we'd all like...so let's HELP them.

I know my view is a limited one but whilst I'm (now) happy we have Adam Treloar, I would have preferred if he had just remained a Giants player and been part of a great rivalry. I find it hard to love players new to the RWB and easy to live and die with the success and failures of our draftees and (in particular), rookie selections. If they aren't good enough to play AFL footy, I'm actually cool with that - not everyone is - they should drop back and play reserves.

[JanLorMill]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Apparently rumours we giving TOB another year! If true we aren’t going anywhere as a club.

[Mantis]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Apparently rumours we giving TOB another year! If true we aren’t going anywhere as a club.

We are going to require some depth and experience so we can’t delist everyone.

I would hope that Busslinger & O’Donnell will have developed sufficiently come the start of 2024 to be in the senior team with players like TOB & Keath there to add depth and to assist with their development.

So I guess why do you feel we are going no where by making this list mgt decision?

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

We are going to require some depth and experience so we can’t delist everyone.

I would hope that Busslinger & O’Donnell will have developed sufficiently come the start of 2024 to be in the senior team with players like TOB & Keath there to add depth and to assist with their development.

So I guess why do you feel we are going no where by making this list mgt decision?

Keeping TOB for another season isn't necessarily a bad option especially if we haven't identified a 3rd tall intercept defender at another club who we might be able to trade for or bring in as a FA.

Equally if we move him on we will just have to put faith in the likes of JOD, Busslinger and Darcy.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Apparently rumours we giving TOB another year! If true we aren?t going anywhere as a club.

TOB was pretty good earlier in the season. He's no superstar however if provides good depth and competition for spots. No list has a team full of superstars. You need role players. I'm ok with year by year with Tim.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

That has to be it you?d think with VDM, Keath & TOB re signed.

Crozier, Bruce, McLean, Duryea, Hannan, Bedendo, Sweet (tr), Khamis (tr) (8)

(R: Smith, McNeil, McComb)

But add Scott as in upgrade to main list. So seven net main list spots.

Two trades/FA and six spots often re Croft bidding rules - means 7 spots needs a slight rebalancing the list, or another trade out to get to 8 main list spots being open. (Or do Scott between drafts maybe to penny pinch a pick)

But I think the music is about to stop and if you don?t have a contract, that?s it now.

[Sedat]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Keeping TOB for another season isn't necessarily a bad option especially if we haven't identified a 3rd tall intercept defender at another club who we might be able to trade for or bring in as a FA.

His durability is the biggest issue. Not much point having him in the mix in 2024 when he is seemingly always in the rehab group. If we are confident he has overcome all these injury setbacks, I'm ok with a 12 month contract.

[Mantis]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

His durability is the biggest issue. Not much point having him in the mix in 2024 when he is seemingly always in the rehab group. If we are confident he has overcome all these injury setbacks, I'm ok with a 12 month contract.

Agree with that. He has spent his 1st 2 preseasons with us assigned to the rehab group which has meant he has come into the year off an indifferent fitness base which has impacted his performance in-season.

He simply needs to get his body sound and build a strong fitness base, and as you said if we have no confidence he can do so then he isn’t much use to us.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I get Bevo is especially loyal to players a lot of fans see as list cloggers but if you go to other clubs boards, I think if fans can clubs, we'd see way, way more turnover everywhere. Ha I go onto club boards before my Super Coach Drafts and majority of fans all believe their club keeps too many players.

Most footy fans= my club should replace this 28 year old who I wouldn't have in 22 with another 18 year old. Not saying it's right or wrong but we are certainly not alone as a fanbase in believing we don't turnover enough.

TOB's value IMO is playing that 3rd tall role which we need a bit more as our KPDs are not mobile. My issue with TOB isn't just that he gets injured, it's that he gets injured in game so often. He is a big risk in making us a man down on the bench, we've seen being short hurt us a few times this year. Having a KPD injured in game especially an issue with structural problems..

[Rocket Science]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Sigh. Cheap depth types are a necessity, though ideally if they can stay on the park for more than three games at a time.

You'd really hope we're tripling our efforts to fast-track the readiness of O'Donnell & Busslinger because the sooner they can dislodge those presently ahead of them, the better.