ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

[Ghost Dog]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

"Addressing remarks that some players were taken off-site for supplement injections, McVeigh said that was only so that they could be administered in a clinical setting.

"We were taken off-site into a sterile environment. Footy clubs sometimes can be filthy so we were taken to a sterile environment," he said."

Well, he is right about one thing! Filthy? yes.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

To be fair, he was looking like and sounding like an ass clown long before now.

McV or Reimers? Reimers' tatts and orange boots paint a picture of a bit of a fool, but he hasn't been pinged so I can only assume he went against the grain. To think that Reimers will never be invited to club functions or welcomed into the fold again. Because he broke ranks, he's out, whereas all these other sheep who did the wrong thing, then tried to cover their trail, will be given a heroe's welcome. So unfair.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

McV or Reimers? Reimers' tatts and orange boots paint a picture of a bit of a fool, but he hasn't been pinged so I can only assume he went against the grain. To think that Reimers will never be invited to club functions or welcomed into the fold again. Because he broke ranks, he's out, whereas all these other sheep who did the wrong thing, then tried to cover their trail, will be given a heroe's welcome. So unfair.

McV. I think our society demonises whistleblowers, but personally I think it takes immense personal character to not only be a WB but put your face and name to it publicly. So I tip my lid to Reimers. McV was a running joke for 1071 days, and is now a fully 100% discredited final joke that history shows tried to bully, and did bully, a whistleblower knowing full well Reimers was telling the truth.

[jeemak]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

The saddest part of what you say, is the truth in it.

Apart from it being likely Ch7 and their sycophantic indigenous player sexualising band of nimwits broadcasting the footy again......

[bulldogtragic]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Apart from it being likely Ch7 and their sycophantic indigenous player sexualising band of nimwits broadcasting the footy again......

Don't forget their Saturday night gun caller who thinks calling someone a 'poof' is role model material. This from the network that sacked Stan Grant and Tracy Holmes over their affair that led to marriage, but hires 'Duck' who has a string of misogynistic offences longer than a former PM and Grant & Holmes combined. I can't wait for triumphant return of a favourite son and Brownlow medalist.

[jeemak]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

McV. I think our society demonises whistleblowers, but personally I think it takes immense personal character to not only be a WB but put your face and name to it publicly. So I tip my lid to Reimers. McV was a running joke for 1071 days, and is now a fully 100% discredited final joke that history shows tried to bully, and did bully, a whistleblower knowing full well Reimers was telling the truth.

The clique of football clubs is no better explained by the carry on the likes of McVeigh demonstrate when someone steps out and doesn't tow the line the clique needs to be towed.

A default setting of attacking or discrediting the messenger out of hand and avoiding the content of the criticism is immediately employed.

They do everything they can to control the message with the help of their associated cliques within the industry.

Lloyd was doing it again on Tuesday night on Footy Classified.

These dickheads don't even realise they're not just part of the problem, but the major reason unscrupulous club officials can get a bunch of players engaging in group think and putting their careers at risk.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Pretty big news today that all 12 banned Essendon players effectively have the right to consider themseves delisted free agents and are free to join other clubs without any trade with the bummers required. With our healthy position, proximity to Essendon and the Crameri/Prismall connection, we may be well placed to score a big win or 2.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Pretty big news today that all 12 banned Essendon players effectively have the right to consider themseves delisted free agents and are free to join other clubs without any trade with the bummers required. With our healthy position, proximity to Essendon and the Crameri/Prismall connection, we may be well placed to score a big win or 2.

Any or all of Hurley, Heppell & Hooker in our set up would be nice. The rules applying to not approaching players and offering contracts won't apply either. I hope JMac is on the phones to their management just putting our name around for when they're ready to have a fresh start and forget the saga by winning a premiership or 5 over the next 5 years.

[jeemak]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

The clique of football clubs is no better explained by the carry on the likes of McVeigh demonstrate when someone steps out and doesn't tow the line the clique needs to be towed.

A default setting of attacking or discrediting the messenger out of hand and avoiding the content of the criticism is immediately employed.

They do everything they can to control the message with the help of their associated cliques within the industry.

Lloyd was doing it again on Tuesday night on Footy Classified.

These dickheads don't even realise they're not just part of the problem, but the major reason unscrupulous club officials can get a bunch of players engaging in group think and putting their careers at risk.

By the way, before anyone raises it I am aware of the parallels with the Nobermanis situation and the EFC and Reimers situation.

It just so happens that when someone is perceived to be a wanker (Reimers) it doesn't necessarily mean they are. However, when someone proves themselves to be a wanker (Nobermanis), well then, they are and they should be treated as such.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

By the way, before anyone raises it I am aware of the parallels with the Nobermanis situation and the EFC and Reimers situation.

It just so happens that when someone is perceived to be a wanker (Reimers) it doesn't necessarily mean they are. However, when someone proves themselves to be a wanker (Nobermanis), well then, they are and they should be treated as such.

Stupid people can say things that are true or close to the truth. J. A. was right about one thing. Namely performance enhancing drugs were being used in AFL ( proven ). But he was probably just shot-gunning at the time and had no real clue.

The fact he is homophobic, or at least expressed views that hurt our societies' push for equality is a different issue, and I have a big problem with him for that article he wrote. He is uneducated and not well endowed with IQ. Entitled to his views I guess, if anyone cares to listen. He is a convicted Cyber-bully.
As for his drug claims, aired at a dinner in Mildura, that was really unfair and unprofessional. Bringing the issue to the table might be the only silver lining of such a low act.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Essendon won the first 8 games out of 9 when definitely on the juice in 2012. Then They missed the finals in that year.Be interesting to know the if most of the injections were given early in the year..

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jan/15/james-hird-blames-stephen-dank-supplements-team-essendon-nightmare

This is truly pathetic.

All along James Hird has been firm in his stance that Essendon were completely in the right and that when the truth comes out everyone will see that they are all really top blokes (especially him).

Well now he can say what he wants, and he says Robinson and Dank are bad guys and Essendon were just unlucky to hire them (poor James couldn't get his 'preferred' applicant).

No acknowledgement of his (and other Essendon peoples) lack of care in hiring them without proper checks (at best), no oversights, no record keeping, actively hiding details from club doctor, getting players to sign waivers, meet away from club premises, conspire to keep details from ASADA, etc etc etc

Just a bunch of top blokes who caught a few real bad breaks.

[Axe Man]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Here is part 1 of the James Hird story from the HUN for those that can't get through the paywall:

Former Essendon coach James Hird breaks silence on Bombers’ drugs saga

James Hird speaks unhindered for the first time on Essendon’s disastrous 2012 season and the devastating suspensions handed to his former players.

OF all of the questions asked by fans in response to Tuesday’s shocking and unfair decision by the Court of Arbitration for Sport, one stands out.

It is the enduring question of the past three years: What actually happened at Essendon in 2012-13?

Today is my first chance to publicly answer this question, unconstrained by the contractual obligations a coach must observe and free of pressure applied by the AFL.

I can finally offer a more detailed explanation to 34 young men and their families. Players who absolutely do not deserve this fate. Players to whom I am eternally sorry for reasons I will explain.

I can also place on the public record matters of importance to my family, friends, Essendon supporters and me. When I started as Essendon coach in September, 2010 I brought the values I hold dear.

I talked to the players about love for the club, about passion for the game, about hard work and trust.

I promised to get to know every one of them individually, to understand who they were and what motivated them to be great players and team men.

I promised the players I would create an environment in which they would become the very best footballers they could be and, in return, they would give their all.

This was our promise to each other.

At the end of my first year, we had made good on our obligations.

Several meetings to try to get to the bottom of the matter occurred in the weeks after Anzac Day 2012.
We were a tight unit. High performance was the mantra from top to bottom with then club president David Evans driving us to find the best ways to do everything we did.

This drive extended to making sure the players had the most beneficial and modern training regimens, diets and dietary supplements under the high performance program.

One of the criticisms levelled at Essendon is why we chose to inject players with compliant supplements at all.

The fact is we were not the only club to use compliant safe injectable supplements. Essendon was one of many AFL clubs doing this. It was legal, it was ethical and the logic and motivation were both sound. Why?

First, because players of both my era and past eras pushed ourselves beyond what the body was capable of, often through injuries and usually beyond pain all the while ignoring the long-term consequences.

At this time the use of painkillers, anti-inflammatory and sleeping tablets were the norm but would lead to side effects such as long-term arthritis, long-term neural pain, eroded stomach linings, addictions and sleeping disorders, to name a few.

To subject modern players to these “old world” methods and consequences would have been “low performance” at best and negligent at worst, especially given there had been so many developments in sports science since my time as a player.

Second, it would become clear our football team was uncompetitive in the “strength stakes”.

Our thinking was heavily influenced in 2011 by two-time premiership coach Mark Thompson, who was my senior mentor, and Brendan McCartney, my senior assistant coach.

Super strong and incredibly skilled, the Cats dominated the competition from 2007 until 2011.

Thompson and McCartney’s most poignant observation was that we lacked size and strength and so were uncompetitive.

Taking these two points together yielded a goal for our players — we wanted them to be bigger, stronger and healthier both as current players and when their career was over. To these ends, we interviewed three people for the role of head of high performance.

Our first choice at that time was at an English Premier League Soccer club. The fact he would not arrive until May, 2012 forced us to look again.

Had we secured this preferred applicant then the experience of the Essendon Football Club and 34 young men would have been very different.

Instead the sliding door we walked through introduced Essendon to the worlds of Dean Robinson and, at Robinson’s suggestion, Stephen Dank.

I don’t intend to go through every detail of every interaction the club had with them, solely because time and space do not permit and much is already on the public record.

But I’ll deal with the questions I am asked the most.

First, how did we come to trust those who were in charge of the supplements program?

The answer is that Robinson had made contributions to two AFL premierships at Geelong and NRL premierships with Manly. He was also appointed by the AFL itself to oversee the fledgling Gold Coast Sun’s strength and conditioning program.

The program contained the best group of young football talent in Australia. These facts and the background checks conducted by Paul Hamilton contributed to his bona fides.

He presented as a cross-code success story. It satisfied the due diligence.

It followed that the club would also agree to his suggestion that Dank must come with him as sports scientist and Suki Hobson, a very talented weights coach who specialised in ACL knee recovery, also had to be engaged.

This is how Robinson and Dank started their roles at Essendon.

I’m also often asked how these roles fitted into the structure of the football club.

The answer is that Hamilton was the head of the football department. Robinson reported to Hamilton, Dank reported to Robinson and the medical department reported to Robinson as well.

Dr Bruce Reid had a direct line to Hamilton if he needed to communicate directly.

I was responsible for the coaches and the player’s football performance. These were essentially discrete units where Hamilton and I were on the same level and reported independently and directly to the chief executive, Ian Robson.

This often surprises people, but it was how Robson wanted it and so how we ran it.

I am also often asked what were the quality control measures in place for the supplements program.

The supplements program was subject to a protocol with an important quality control measure that any supplements needed to be approved by Dr Reid before they could be given to the players.

The club required this precisely because Hamilton and the coaches had inadequate knowledge about supplements and because there would be no other sport’s doctor in Australia with as sound a reputation for maximising player welfare as Dr Reid.

As has been reported publicly, I was comfortable with supplements provided they would be ASADA and AFL approved, could do no harm to any player, the players have given their informed consent and the final approval lay with Dr Reid.

The supplements program then, from my perspective, had sound logic, important goals, the people the club had engaged presented as credible and successful, the structure for the program was right and the protocol for decision-making and player welfare had integrity.

I trusted the governance we put around this program and the people directly in charge of administering it.

I concentrated on my task as head coach, satisfied that the supplement piece of the high-performance puzzle at Essendon was compliant.

It seems that what transpired was that the protocol we put in place was not always followed.

Importantly, to our knowledge at that time, this was the scope of the problem, because Dank had assured the club the supplements were compliant.

He had even presented supporting evidence. Upon first learning of Dr Reid’s concerns in January 2012 that the protocol may not have been followed I re-emphasised the protocols that needed to be in place via email to Robinson.

I was clear. Crystal clear. In addition, Dr Reid would outline his concerns with Robinson and Dank and the lack of information he had received as to the effectiveness of the supplements.

I encouraged Dr Reid to put his concerns in writing to Hamilton.

These concerns were written in a letter from Dr Reid addressed to Hamilton and myself.

Unfortunately, I was not given a copy of this letter and did not see this letter until over a year after it was written.

A series of meetings would follow to try to get to the bottom of the matter and take the action that needed to be taken.

These meetings took place in the weeks after the Anzac Day game 2012, meetings in which Hamilton, Thompson, Dr Reid and I reminded Dank that there was no situation in which he was allowed to administer injections without Dr Reid’s approval as the protocol demanded.

A meeting in which Dr Reid and Danny Corcoran expressed to the club president and chief executive that Dank and Robinson should be sacked. A request I supported.

And ultimately a decision at the end of the season by the club that Dank would not be recontracted and that Robinson’s job would be significantly diminished, despite his threats of legal action.

My understanding is that the club’s explanation for the time it took to take this action was related to the cost of contract cancellation and the potential for legal action to be taken.

Subsequently, in October 2012 Corcoran was appointed as the head of the football department and a full review of the supplements program was undertaken.

The supplements protocol was then amended so the only person allowed to inject players would be the club doctor.

That was what happened in 2012 relating to the supplements program.

I add by way of summary and to reiterate that the protocol was made clear at the club, that Tuesday’s 48-page Court of Arbitration for Sport decision carries four separate references at paragraphs 18, 22, 23 and 26 to my insistences that the supplements program had to be legal, had to be compliant, had to have the informed consent of the players and had to be approved by Dr Reid.

Again, four separate references to my insistence that supplements had to be legal, had to be compliant, had to have the informed consent of the players and had to be approved by Dr Reid.

With these serious issues addressed we enjoyed a terrific and promising 2013 pre-season.

The players were fit, the club was harmonious and I felt we were on the verge of a very special season.

That feeling and optimism did not last long.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

"These concerns were written in a letter from Dr Reid addressed to Hamilton and myself.

Unfortunately, I was not given a copy of this letter and did not see this letter until over a year after it was written."

Doesn't stack up. Senior coaches are so wary of supplements and drugs in sport. If you knew the club doc was putting something in writing regards illegal supplements, and you didn't get it, you would chase it up.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

"These concerns were written in a letter from Dr Reid addressed to Hamilton and myself.

Unfortunately, I was not given a copy of this letter and did not see this letter until over a year after it was written."

Doesn't stack up. Senior coaches are so wary of supplements and drugs in sport. If you knew the club doc was putting something in writing regards illegal supplements, and you didn't get it, you would chase it up.

Yup. Reid and Hird work in close proximity and are in regular contact, often daily. Reid feels strongly enough to write a letter and send out multiple copies, but never brings it up in conversation (even after Hird hasn't replied in months). Please.