ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

[Twodogs]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

We are in total disagreement on this.

Fair enough. It would be a boring world if we all agreed.

[GVGjr]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

It's pretty simple judgement .. If you take something you must have evidence of what you took . Paperwork etc if you haven't you are presumed guilty, the players are responsible and must have the paperwork, they don't, they are guilty otherwise every athlete in the world could take drugs and just lose the paperwork.
WADA doesn't care if players want to blame the club or anyone else. Fact is the athlete should have the paperwork if not your guilty.
I think it's a good rule, if these footballers don't have the evidence of what they took sayonara in my book.
Essendon cam claim whatever they want but they don't have paperwork either, I think the case was judged right, the players should be suing Essendons arse off.
Whether they didn't take banned drugs or did is not the issue the issue is you haven't got the paperwork . Therefore your guilty .
That's the way I see it and to me that's how it has to be to keep athletes honest.
Also at every test you are asked have you taken anything only one player said yes , why did they all lie ?
The club stinks and the players are certainly guilty of not having paperwork and hiding something.

My understanding is that you can be guilty for not attending a drug test or advising the authorities of where you are so they can perform out of season testing.

[Twodogs]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

It's pretty simple judgement .. If you take something you must have evidence of what you took . Paperwork etc if you haven't you are presumed guilty, the players are responsible and must have the paperwork, they don't, they are guilty otherwise every athlete in the world could take drugs and just lose the paperwork.
WADA doesn't care if players want to blame the club or anyone else. Fact is the athlete should have the paperwork if not your guilty.
I think it's a good rule, if these footballers don't have the evidence of what they took sayonara in my book.
Essendon cam claim whatever they want but they don't have paperwork either, I think the case was judged right, the players should be suing Essendons arse off.
Whether they didn't take banned drugs or did is not the issue the issue is you haven't got the paperwork . Therefore your guilty .
That's the way I see it and to me that's how it has to be to keep athletes honest.
Also at every test you are asked have you taken anything only one player said yes , why did they all lie ?
The club stinks and the players are certainly guilty of not having paperwork and hiding something.

Pretty typical of the mis truths WADA are peddling. Only 3 players didn't disclose. The other 35 payed the price though.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Pretty typical of the mis truths WADA are peddling. Only 3 players didn't disclose. The other 35 payed the price though.

Really? I remember seeing a report that the Essendon players through various ASADA forms were collectively asked over 500 times in 2012 to list any supplements they were taking. All failed to list any.

[Greystache]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Pretty typical of the mis truths WADA are peddling. Only 3 players didn't disclose. The other 35 payed the price though.

Where are you getting that from? ASADA conducted 30 tests on 21 players and 20 said they'd had no injections, and one said he'd had 1 injection of vitamin A. This despite them listing things as trivial as Panadol on their doping control forms.

[Sedat]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Where are you getting that from? ASADA conducted 30 tests on 21 players and 20 said they'd had no injections, and one said he'd had 1 injection of vitamin A. This despite them listing things as trivial as Panadol on their doping control forms.

Yep, this is as clear-cut a case of concealment and duplicity as you can get in world sport. Using the burden of criminal law as the minimum basis for conviction, the likes of Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, etc.. would all still be feted as champions of their respective sports instead of being exposed as the dopers and cheats that they are. Much like the Essendon 34.

The depths our sport has plunged to try to excuse basic fundamental behaviour from professional athletes is embarrassing. There are 13yo gymnasts who exercise far greater professionalism and attention to detail than a bunch of well-paid and entitled footballers.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Yep, this is as clear-cut a case of concealment and duplicity as you can get in world sport. Using the burden of criminal law as the minimum basis for conviction, the likes of Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, etc.. would all still be feted as champions of their respective sports instead of being exposed as the dopers and cheats that they are. Much like the Essendon 34.

The depths our sport has plunged to try to excuse basic fundamental behaviour from professional athletes is embarrassing. There are 13yo gymnasts who exercise far greater professionalism and attention to detail than a bunch of well-paid and entitled footballers.

Totally agree. A 15 year old Bulgarian gymnast is missing 2 years (effectively her career) because she took a single cold and flu tablet from her coach without checking, as outlined in a recent comparative article.

These guys, all signatories to WADA, by comparison engaged in a deceptive systematic programme. Even if they did believe what they were taking was legal, their behaviour was so far short of that required of a professional athlete.

[Greystache]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Totally agree. A 15 year old Bulgarian gymnast is missing 2 years (effectively her career) because she took a single cold and flu tablet from her coach without checking, as outlined in a recent comparative article.

These guys, all signatories to WADA, by comparison engaged in a deceptive systematic programme. Even if they did believe what they were taking was legal, their behaviour was so far short of that required of a professional athlete.

What about Wade Lees? A VFL player who got 2 years for ordering a supplement online with a banned ingredient from the USA that was picked up at customs.

[Twodogs]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Where are you getting that from? ASADA conducted 30 tests on 21 players and 20 said they'd had no injections, and one said he'd had 1 injection of vitamin A. This despite them listing things as trivial as Panadol on their doping control forms.

Yep, this is as clear-cut a case of concealment and duplicity as you can get in world sport. Using the burden of criminal law as the minimum basis for conviction, the likes of Lance Armstrong, Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, etc.. would all still be feted as champions of their respective sports instead of being exposed as the dopers and cheats that they are. Much like the Essendon 34.

The depths our sport has plunged to try to excuse basic fundamental behaviour from professional athletes is embarrassing. There are 13yo gymnasts who exercise far greater professionalism and attention to detail than a bunch of well-paid and entitled footballers.

ASADA themselves only mention 30 tests and 18 players:


“Of 30 ASADA testing missions during the period in question, none of the 18 players tested declared the injections, despite being asked each time whether they had taken any supplements.”

From the section titled the ASADA VICTORY in this article;

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/court-of-arbitration-for-sport-hands-down-ruling-on-wadas-appeal-into-essendon-doping-allegations/news-story/2c97065ed9edb5f912170232eb8ec86d

I'm talking about the players questioned leading up the trial. They are the ones who's testimony is being represented as all of the players views as if all the players had been asked.

[Topdog]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

ASADA themselves only mention 30 tests and 18 players:


“Of 30 ASADA testing missions during the period in question, none of the 18 players tested declared the injections, despite being asked each time whether they had taken any supplements.”

From the section titled the ASADA VICTORY in this article;

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/court-of-arbitration-for-sport-hands-down-ruling-on-wadas-appeal-into-essendon-doping-allegations/news-story/2c97065ed9edb5f912170232eb8ec86d

I'm talking about the players questioned leading up the trial. They are the ones who's testimony is being represented as all of the players views as if all the players had been asked.

Im confused are you implying that this backs up your argument? 18 players (as opposed to 21) flat out lied when asked if they were taking any injections. This isn't simply forgetting to mention something trivial. These players were taken off site, signing contracts swearing them to secrecy, apparently had been given the all clear by WADA yet none of them thought 'Yeah i should mention this'??

In the words of the Essendon drunk I'm flabberbasted.

[LostDoggy]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

They lied to cover up the supplement program.
They knew what they were doing was wrong.
Serve your time and suck it up princess's.
Over it all.
FFS when does the footy start?!

[Twodogs]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Im confused are you implying that this backs up your argument? 18 players (as opposed to 21) flat out lied when asked if they were taking any injections. This isn't simply forgetting to mention something trivial. These players were taken off site, signing contracts swearing them to secrecy, apparently had been given the all clear by WADA yet none of them thought 'Yeah i should mention this'??

In the words of the Essendon drunk I'm flabberbasted.

Yeah I know. I confused myself and quoted the wrong article and can't find the one I want now. I agree it's a pissweak argument.


It's worth noting though that according to that statement they weren't asked if they were having injections. They were asked if they were taking supplements. I know that it's a small technical difference but it adds to the obsufacation of facts that characterise the approach of the prosecuting authorities.

[Topdog]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Honestly McDevitt hit the mark with this.

“There were very little grounds for the players to claim they were at no significant fault.
“The players had received anti-doping education through the AFL and ASADA, and were well aware that they are personally responsible for all substances that entered their body.
“Unfortunately, despite their education, they agreed to be injected with a number of substances they had little knowledge of, made no enquiries about the substance and kept the injections from their team doctor and ASADA.”
“Of 30 ASADA testing missions during the period in question, none of the 18 players tested declared the injections, despite being asked each time whether they had taken any supplements.”
“At best, the players did not ask the questions, or the people, they should have. At worst, they were complicit in a culture of secrecy and concealment.”

[ledge]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

I tend to think it was a directing from higher up if all of them didn't mention it , funny thing is Hird denied telling the players to say nothing but I previously read somewhere he told them Not to say anything because he didn't want other clubs to find out and start doing it.
But as the WADA code says each individual is responsible it doesn't care what directives if any were given.
Typical Hird deny everything then throw the players under the bus by getting them to sign waver forms thinking it covered his arse.

[Sedat]

Re: ASADA issues show-cause notices to Essendon players

Honestly McDevitt hit the mark with this.

McDevitt's "at best" scenario might apply to a 1st year rookie simply doing what they were told and following his more senior teammates, but it cannot possibly be used as a get-out for the likes of Fletcher, Watson, Hille, McVeigh, etc.. Their complicity in the secret nature of the injecting regime, coupled with their duplicity in concealing the extent of this to their own doctor and the ASADA testers, is as damning as anything coming from the Eastern Bloc in the 70's, or the cycling world in the 90's/00's. They are confirmed dopers and drug cheats, nothing more or less than that.

So why are we feeling sorry for these players again? Why is the AFL and the complicit media doing everything in their power to control the narrative that the players are innocent victims in all of this? And why on earth is it even up for debate as to why Watson should be stripped of his ill-gotten Brownlow? Christ we are a naïve, backwards, insignificant little pissant competition if we feel the need to protect the feelings of confirmed dopers, not to mention protect the organisation who willingly and knowingly cheated to gain an artificial advantage over the rest of the competition.

Essendon's "punishment" for systematic, club-wide cheating is to get first dibs on the best talent in the country in the 2016 ND, and to be given a golden ticket of 10 top-up players by the AFL (with no impact on salary caps) so that they can be artificially propped up and remain competitive in the 2016 season. If they cannot survive on their own two feet, I'm sure the Apple Isle would be all too willing to step in provide an 18th team. Or even Fitzroy could get their license handed back to them, as a show of remorse by City Hall for the appalling way they were left to die by the AFL in 1996.