2023 List Management Thread

[Mofra]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I actually think the minimum cap is one of the issues.

If North had been able to bank cap space for the last 5 years that could really chase some quality to top up on the kids they have drafted

They would also have drafted more young talent instead of wasting cap space on Polec, Corr etc.

Conversely, we don't want 3-4 West Coasts every year making uncompetitive games unwatchable because they're banking cap for a tilt in 3 years' time.
It's a balancing act

[Axe Man]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Moneyball: The latest contract updates on players on rival radars

You?re a list manager at an AFL club and you scour the suite of opposition players to put on your wish list. Who do you have on it and when do you strike? We run our eye over every club?s topical players and when their current contract expires.

WESTERN BULLDOGS

Bailey Williams
Contract expires 2023
Utility the Dogs would love to re-sign given his versatility. Williams can play on the wing, roll back to stiffen the defence or ? as evidenced against Fremantle and Gold Coast ? boot multiple goals. The Dogs might have to up their offer to lock away the 25-year-old who has proven to be a gem selection (No.48 in 2015).

Tim English
Contracted expires 2024
The clubhouse leader to be this year?s All-Australian ruckman has 12 months remaining and is already being paid handsomely. The Bulldogs might have to stump up close to $1 million per season to keep the West Australian, who West Coast would love to snatch. But will the Dogs be spooked by Brodie Grundy?s seven-year contract that backfired on Collingwood? Qualifies for free agency next year.

Aaron Naughton
Contracted expires 2024
Unlike English, Naughton is not a free agent next year. Sydney would love him, as would the Eagles, but he is settled in Melbourne and the Dogs are confident their spearhead will stay. Arguably one of the most important Bulldogs and another who might command a seven-figure salary from 2025.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Is Naughton really worth over a million dollars a year? Would we ever see that return on field? Seems way too high a price for what we get.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Is Naughton really worth over a million dollars a year? Would we ever see that return on field? Seems way too high a price for what we get.

50 goals a year - not many can kick that

[azabob]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Is Naughton really worth over a million dollars a year? Would we ever see that return on field? Seems way too high a price for what we get.

Is English really worth a million dollars a year? Would we ever see that return on field? Seems way too high of a price for what we get?


BT, I smell a poll coming. Who do you keep Naughton or English...

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

50 goals a year - not many can kick that

We need to be able to pay everyone and not use too much salary cap on 3 or 4 players.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

We need to be able to pay everyone and not use too much salary cap on 3 or 4 players.

Yes agree. Naughton and English are a must keep.

[GVGjr]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Is Naughton really worth over a million dollars a year? Would we ever see that return on field? Seems way too high a price for what we get.

It's hard to speculate on the money being mentioned and while I rate him 1M a year averaged out seems excessive.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

Is English really worth a million dollars a year? Would we ever see that return on field? Seems way too high of a price for what we get?


BT, I smell a poll coming. Who do you keep Naughton or English...

I like.

Maybe English. But 1M is huge too.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

We need to be able to pay everyone and not use too much salary cap on 3 or 4 players.

Yep. While we have plenty of cap space, we get very limited very quickly having a handful of 1M players.

Yes agree. Naughton and English are a must keep.

Not sure. Open to consideration without wanting either to go per se. But I?m very concerned about return on investment, particularly on Naughton.

It's hard to speculate on the money being mentioned and while I rate him 1M a year averaged out seems excessive.

Absolutely it?s excessive. I don?t see his actual output this year (at least) warranting nearly 10% of our salary cap to him. It?s no longer is he ?good enough ? or is he ?a forward or defender better?. It?s a simple question of whether we will get the output on field that 1M players are expected to deliver week in and week out. I?m really concerned about overpaying to keep him, tying up our salary cap and getting a good yet inconsistent player that limits us on field and off field. I just don?t see 1M as being his value, even with inflation. If others are offering $1,000,000+ then to me it?s time to really consider ROI and ?perhaps? the trade value of many high picks or a very, very, very high one, and the huge extra cap room while having Lobb, Marra, Darcy, Croft and maybe Bruce for a year as insurance.

I?m not advocating pushing him out the door. But nearly 10% of the cap on Naughton seems to be a point where we really need to consider all the options. It?s a lot of cash and a lot of years of a lot of cash. It?s not a simple decision to me if the money is at this level.

[hujsh]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

If we want on field success they need to be prepared to accept less than a mil. Hopefully a Smorgon joint can hook up their partners with 300k a year reception gigs or something.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

If we want on field success they need to be prepared to accept less than a mil. Hopefully a Smorgon joint can hook up their partners with 300k a year reception gigs or something.

What if either simply won’t. They get 5-7 years on 1M+ from another club? What do we do if we want on field success?

[MrMahatma]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

The thing is, if we offer $850/yr, and someone else offers $1mil a year. 5 year deal. Even after tax that's a big chunk of change you've gotta walk away from.

I'm not sure what English has been paid in the current contract. You could form an argument that it's been overs. This season has been really good but the consistency hasn't been there prior.

Can't underestimate how much Naughton's style of play makes us attractive to sponsors, fans and the TV rights holders. He and Baz are the two I'd pay additional too for the purposes of marketing, even if their on-field output wasn't up to the $ (which I believe Astro's output IS up to the value).

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

The thing is, if we offer $850/yr, and someone else offers $1mil a year. 5 year deal. Even after tax that's a big chunk of change you've gotta walk away from.

I'm not sure what English has been paid in the current contract. You could form an argument that it's been overs. This season has been really good but the consistency hasn't been there prior.

Can't underestimate how much Naughton's style of play makes us attractive to sponsors, fans and the TV rights holders. He and Baz are the two I'd pay additional too for the purposes of marketing, even if their on-field output wasn't up to the $ (which I believe Astro's output IS up to the value).

We can play players (as all clubs can) extra cash outside the salary cap for genuine marketing of the club (ASA’s). To a fixed amount. We don’t need to top up contracts if we want them for marketing purposes. I’d suggest they’re both getting a nice top up already. I’m not sure we need to increase their cap contract for marketing on top of their likely marketing cash ASA’s.

[mjp]

Re: 2023 List Management Thread

I think we're all projecting West Coast is 'the threat' for the signatures of Naughts and Tim.

Fair I guess - they are both 'sorta' from Perth and West Coast are:
1/. At the bottom of the ladder with 'some' draft capital.
2/. It is assumed they have $ to spend under the cap.

But can you think for a minute how freaking miserable it would be to be playing there right now? And if you think that undergoing a 5-year rebuild during the prime of your career is something AFL players dream of, well...they don't. When they get drafted, they want to play 'A game'. Just one. When they've done that, they want to cement themselves in the side. Up to this point, most of them seriously could care less about win-loss. But once they are in and WINNING, well...they want to keep winning. They want to play in finals, they want to be in the battle for the flag.

Yes - games like ANZAC Day are a pull for sides like the Pies but players want to play FINALS. They want to impact in FINALS.

West Coast will have to pay MASSIVE overs to get anyone right now (though they are too arrogant to understand that) and they really don't have much to offer back for players who are UNDER CONTRACT (read Naughton and English).

If they offer pick #1 and pick #19 and pick #1 in 2024 for Naughton - and that's what it would take - how would they rebuild the rest of their side?? I guess I need BT to help me understand this but I don't get how WC are a threat to actually TRADE for these two contracted players without completely compromising the rest of their rebuild...they need high draft picks.