Father/Son Watch

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Father/Son Watch

Would a 21 year old want to come to our club especially if Beveridge isn't keen on upsetting the midfield apple cart? This year especially it has been made very clear that Beveridge has a core group that attend centre bounces.

It will be extremely interesting how we handle the midfield transition of Treloar and Liberatore over the coming 24 months.

By drafting an 18 year old they can be eased in and in 2 years be ready for major midfield minutes. I'm unsure if a 21 year old would be willing to wait.

What has hurt more, Lobb on field or losing the draft capital given up for him?

There are so many outside factors at play not only off field but on field also.

Fair points, but there’s no guarantees that by passing on Croft, and if our picks blow out to 20 & 22 that we will get gun mids capable of regenerating the midfield either.

I agree of the Lobb picks, hence my trade targets are very narrow and about the future. Young, highly talented young men.

There’s no easy answer. I think we must take Croft. After that circumstances are dictating that we probably need to trade them out (first rounders). But get the right players and it’s win-win.

If Bevo has half a clue, and he has more, he knows he needs to regenerate the midfield from next year. Whether it’s more rotations or whatever. If he sees his contract out he will be struggling to get another contract extension with Dads Army in the midfield and young guns trading out every second year for opportunity. I have no doubt there will be some transition and if Bevo can sell that to some young guys then why wouldn’t they want to play with Naughton, JUH, Smith, Darcy and the Bont?

Our draft hand is stronger for trading than using. As Doc pointed out above, there’s potentially 6 matched bids and compo before our first pick. They’re in effect, second rounders. If they need to go, and the club gets the right young players and Croft and maybe a couple of needs trades and/or a FA, then (the club believing it’s in the window) should be adequately restocked to take that next leap.

If VRED’s mail is true - English for Pick 1 and more - does that ease your mind with Harley Reid too?

[hujsh]

Re: Father/Son Watch

Fair points, but there’s no guarantees that by passing on Croft, and if our picks blow out to 20 & 22 that we will get gun mids capable of regenerating the midfield either.

I agree of the Lobb picks, hence my trade targets are very narrow and about the future. Young, highly talented young men.

There’s no easy answer. I think we must take Croft. After that circumstances are dictating that we probably need to trade them out (first rounders). But get the right players and it’s win-win.

If Bevo has half a clue, and he has more, he knows he needs to regenerate the midfield from next year. Whether it’s more rotations or whatever. If he sees his contract out he will be struggling to get another contract extension with Dads Army in the midfield and young guns trading out every second year for opportunity. I have no doubt there will be some transition and if Bevo can sell that to some young guys then why wouldn’t they want to play with Naughton, JUH, Smith, Darcy and the Bont?

Our draft hand is stronger for trading than using. As Doc pointed out above, there’s potentially 6 matched bids and compo before our first pick. They’re in effect, second rounders. If they need to go, and the club gets the right young players and Croft and maybe a couple of needs trades and/or a FA, then (the club believing it’s in the window) should be adequately restocked to take that next leap.

If VRED’s mail is true - English for Pick 1 and more - does that ease your mind with Harley Reid too?

Reid, Smith, Macrae and Bont you'd expect to still all be around in that scenario when Libba and Treloar have retired. Maybe one of West/Garcia can step up to become the 5th mid too. One appealing aspect there is there's some generational difference in the makeup of the mids in that scenario. Bont and Macrae are a year apart, Smith is 4 years younger than the Bont and Reid would be another 4 years younger.

Would need a ruck though.

It's funny looking at the ages of our mids I always had the impression Dunkley was younger than he is. He's (26) one year younger than the Bont and 2 younger than Macrae. With a lot more injuries keeping him out of footy too. Low key I could see those two lasting longer than him especially if we move Bont around in his twilight.

Could we also see Treloar becoming a forward pocket goal sneak at the end? He's got pace and loves a goal. Maybe something similar to GAJ. Would give us an emergency changeup option in the midfield maybe too.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Father/Son Watch

Reid, Smith, Macrae and Bont you'd expect to still all be around in that scenario when Libba and Treloar have retired. Maybe one of West/Garcia can step up to become the 5th mid too. One appealing aspect there is there's some generational difference in the makeup of the mids in that scenario. Bont and Macrae are a year apart, Smith is 4 years younger than the Bont and Reid would be another 4 years younger.

Would need a ruck though.

It's funny looking at the ages of our mids I always had the impression Dunkley was younger than he is. He's (26) one year younger than the Bont and 2 younger than Macrae. With a lot more injuries keeping him out of footy too. Low key I could see those two lasting longer than him especially if we move Bont around in his twilight.

Could we also see Treloar becoming a forward pocket goal sneak at the end? He's got pace and loves a goal. Maybe something similar to GAJ. Would give us an emergency changeup option in the midfield maybe too.

Grundy can stay in his family home in Melbourne, earn the same money and be the big dog 1st ruck again without needing to learn to be a VFL forward. I think he’s on $650,000 at Melbourne after Collingwood contribute. That less than Tim is on, apparently $750,000+. So we are already profitable and I’d be asking Melbourne to take the full Hunter contract if we were meant to be contributing next year too. Grundy & Treloar can have daily coffee and reminisce about the huge contracts and promises Collingwood made them before shafting them both.

I’ll believe it when it happens, but an English trade from our player acquisition and salary spend ability will be crazy. For a club that thinks it’s firmly in the window, we would shape the entire trade period. Both for the now and the long term.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Father/Son Watch

Reid, Smith, Macrae and Bont you'd expect to still all be around in that scenario when Libba and Treloar have retired. Maybe one of West/Garcia can step up to become the 5th mid too. One appealing aspect there is there's some generational difference in the makeup of the mids in that scenario. Bont and Macrae are a year apart, Smith is 4 years younger than the Bont and Reid would be another 4 years younger.

Would need a ruck though.

It's funny looking at the ages of our mids I always had the impression Dunkley was younger than he is. He's (26) one year younger than the Bont and 2 younger than Macrae. With a lot more injuries keeping him out of footy too. Low key I could see those two lasting longer than him especially if we move Bont around in his twilight.

Could we also see Treloar becoming a forward pocket goal sneak at the end? He's got pace and loves a goal. Maybe something similar to GAJ. Would give us an emergency changeup option in the midfield maybe too.

Hawthorn had the luxury of, when the chips were down, pulling in Burgoyne from wherever, and putting him in the middle late in games and turning them around. If Treloar could find another spot to be damaging if say Smith took his minutes now and in a hard slog of a game/final you could just release Treloar and his speed late. Like a second sub. Talk about a luxury.

[hujsh]

Re: Father/Son Watch

Grundy can stay in his family home in Melbourne, earn the same money and be the big dog 1st ruck again without needing to learn to be a VFL forward. I think he’s on $650,000 at Melbourne after Collingwood contribute. That less than Tim is on, apparently $750,000+. So we are already profitable and I’d be asking Melbourne to take the full Hunter contract if we were meant to be contributing next year too. Grundy & Treloar can have daily coffee and reminisce about the huge contracts and promises Collingwood made them before shafting them both.

I’ll believe it when it happens, but an English trade from our player acquisition and salary spend ability will be crazy. For a club that thinks it’s firmly in the window, we would shape the entire trade period. Both for the now and the long term.

It will be interesting. Melbourne will know we NEED a ruck. They won't be without leverage. A lot will depend on how much they need to get rid of Grundy. If they have to cover Collingwood's contribution to his salary they end up saving what? $300k-$350k of that 650 figure? The math doesn't quite work for them the same as Collingwood so maybe we need to settle for taking on more of his salary. Could you live with $750k? IE literally replacing English. Melbourne would be spending $200k-ish and getting rid of $400k or thereabouts which probably makes more sense to them.

Unless of course the Collingwood contribution stands in which case send him over for a pack of chips

[Bornadog]

Re: Father/Son Watch

It will be interesting. Melbourne will know we NEED a ruck. They won't be without leverage. A lot will depend on how much they need to get rid of Grundy. If they have to cover Collingwood's contribution to his salary they end up saving what? $300k-$350k of that 650 figure? The math doesn't quite work for them the same as Collingwood so maybe we need to settle for taking on more of his salary. Could you live with $750k? IE literally replacing English. Melbourne would be spending $200k-ish and getting rid of $400k or thereabouts which probably makes more sense to them.

Unless of course the Collingwood contribution stands in which case send him over for a pack of chips

Get Grundy and lose Tim, we will be going backwards

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Father/Son Watch

It will be interesting. Melbourne will know we NEED a ruck. They won't be without leverage. A lot will depend on how much they need to get rid of Grundy. If they have to cover Collingwood's contribution to his salary they end up saving what? $300k-$350k of that 650 figure? The math doesn't quite work for them the same as Collingwood so maybe we need to settle for taking on more of his salary. Could you live with $750k? IE literally replacing English. Melbourne would be spending $200k-ish and getting rid of $400k or thereabouts which probably makes more sense to them.

Unless of course the Collingwood contribution stands in which case send him over for a pack of chips

The three clubs have cross salary top up contracts on Treloar, Hunter & Grundy for next year or beyond. Since we are all tied together in this web it makes sense to sit down and see it out. I think the clubs could thrash it out and with recent good will at the trade table recently, I reckon Grundy costs maybe a F2 or F3. Melbourne know we will need a ruck. But. We know they’re spending $650,000 to have Grundy play VFL when they could acquire an actual very good best 22 player by dumping his salary. Its win-win I reckon.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Father/Son Watch

Get Grundy and lose Tim, we will be going backwards

That’s not the equation though. Your forgetting the number 1 kid in the draft pulling on our jumper and perhaps more.

[azabob]

Re: Father/Son Watch

Fair points, but there’s no guarantees that by passing on Croft, and if our picks blow out to 20 & 22 that we will get gun mids capable of regenerating the midfield either.

I agree of the Lobb picks, hence my trade targets are very narrow and about the future. Young, highly talented young men.

There’s no easy answer. I think we must take Croft. After that circumstances are dictating that we probably need to trade them out (first rounders). But get the right players and it’s win-win.

If Bevo has half a clue, and he has more, he knows he needs to regenerate the midfield from next year. Whether it’s more rotations or whatever. If he sees his contract out he will be struggling to get another contract extension with Dads Army in the midfield and young guns trading out every second year for opportunity. I have no doubt there will be some transition and if Bevo can sell that to some young guys then why wouldn’t they want to play with Naughton, JUH, Smith, Darcy and the Bont?

Our draft hand is stronger for trading than using. As Doc pointed out above, there’s potentially 6 matched bids and compo before our first pick. They’re in effect, second rounders. If they need to go, and the club gets the right young players and Croft and maybe a couple of needs trades and/or a FA, then (the club believing it’s in the window) should be adequately restocked to take that next leap.

If VRED’s mail is true - English for Pick 1 and more - does that ease your mind with Harley Reid too?

You are right with all you have said, but I am also right with what I have said! (just ask me)

Again we are hamstrung by academy and father son picks, just this time they are not all our players!

Can we agree that no trading of future picks this trade period? Unless it nets us a top 5 pick this year.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Father/Son Watch

If Tim goes I think we need to keep Sweet and put up with his limitations until Darcy and maybe Croft can rotate threw the middle.
If we know Tim is defiantly gone we need sell it to Sweet he will be uno numero in the ruck.

[hujsh]

Re: Father/Son Watch

If Tim goes I think we need to keep Sweet and put up with his limitations until Darcy and maybe Croft can rotate threw the middle.
If we know Tim is defiantly gone we need sell it to Sweet he will be uno numero in the ruck.

I wonder if they'll be good enough rucks one day to be a 50/50 CamHead type solution for us (or RoughOyd as it was in the finals)

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Father/Son Watch

You are right with all you have said, but I am also right with what I have said! (just ask me)

Again we are hamstrung by academy and father son picks, just this time they are not all our players!

Can we agree that no trading of future picks this trade period? Unless it nets us a top 5 pick this year.

It’s a Rorschach Test Az. There’s no right or wrong until hindsight kicks in!!

I’m prepared to look at trading futures. The first would have to be an extraordinary deal. But if we are after value trades on Henry or Lohmann/Schultz, then I’d entertain later picks. We don’t have the trade capital this year unless we have some equivalent trades out.

I get the feeling this could be one of the most dynamic list management periods we’ve had. And todays best plan could be outdated by tonight. We just need to stay nimble and open minded.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Father/Son Watch

I wonder if they'll be good enough rucks one day to be a 50/50 CamHead type solution for us (or RoughOyd as it was in the finals)

Darcy’s growth spurt has him at 210cm now and Twomey reckons Croft is still growing at 201cm. When they’re ready the coach is going to love the idea of throwing them around the ground. If they’re too good as KPP’s then we just need a good number one and give these guys a few minutes here and there. They won’t have monster frames, but if they can compete without ruining their bodies through height alone that’s pretty, pretty, pretty good.

[Bornadog]

Re: Father/Son Watch

That’s not the equation though. Your forgetting the number 1 kid in the draft pulling on our jumper and perhaps more.

Number one kid could end up crap.

PS Backwards with rucks.

[Bornadog]

Re: Father/Son Watch

If Tim goes I think we need to keep Sweet and put up with his limitations until Darcy and maybe Croft can rotate threw the middle.
If we know Tim is defiantly gone we need sell it to Sweet he will be uno numero in the ruck.

I agree, and save the money on Grundy's big dollars. Grundy cooked.

VFL: Last week - 12 disposals, 12 hitouts. 1 goal 3